Next patch in March 31st

it's just the IS-2 that is ridiculously strong.

No contest there.

This is getting ridiculous. Panthers and Tigers weak?

I swear one of these days I will walk into these forums only to find someone honestly complaining how Obersoldaten are underpowered and need a buff.

THey do they are not nearly as strong as they once were. They are in their weakest state since release. I want my old overs that single handedly killed 1200 mp of focus firing soviets at the cost of one model...

Last nerfs reverted and the Penetration given to help lessen the Nerf intact. Panther is significantly buffed over where it was last time.

Last patch the vehicle was totally useless and crippled. It rarely deflected shots. The patch made it good again. Not overpowered but useful.

Last time an equal number or superior number worth of fuel could kill a Panther (OMG!!!!). Not it can usually kill 2-3 times its fuel cost....

Panther is supposed to be a counter versus armor. If you are not stupid and park your vehicles in front of it, you will win.

Defeating Panthers with an equal fuel amount is btw bullshit also. It´s the most expensive non doctrinal hard counter to fuel based targets itself.

Guess what? Good usage of Panthers is rewarded, charging in your T-34s is punished. But even then there is abilities as P47 and mark target which give you the superiority and allow you to frontally engage Panthers.

A Panther on equal skill and micro level can fight 1 1/2 T-34/85s.

Rebuffing the Panthers frontal armor is what completely broke the OKW vs USF armored Matchup and leaves USF with unsatisfactory Penetration on ALL things. Tiger and King Tiger can be dealt with because they ARE slow. Panther is not. Panther is OP as hell right now at least against USF.

Panthers aren´t OP. They are the only unit that can soft-counter M36s (once vet1), but they can still be easily overwhelmed by the 240dmg and 60 range.

Your playercard btw shows that in 1vs1 you played 907 games as Allies and 133 games as Axis. That´s almost 7 times as much games as Allies. I guess your impression comes from that.

Pff... and i had the hope for next week. Silly me

This is getting ridiculous. Panthers and Tigers weak?

I didn´t say weak, but weaker than most patches before. Remember the last patch where nobody built Panthers? That was corrected in this patch. Now we can expect nerfs again?

Btw, lets not break the day of members that have ballance forums locked with ballance discussion. Maybe some thread there to discuss expectations concerning ballance in incoming patch?

What is that supposed to mean? Kittens = Tiger, Tiger B, Panther

Only the Tiger ace and the Tiger B are strong.

Panthers barely handle T-34/85s, lose to them if not properly used and suck versus infantry. Previous patches showed how useless it is with even slight nerfs. Touch that thing and you destroy Ostheer.

Tigers are good versus infantry but are only mediocre versus armor. Constant nerfs to its health lead to it being not very survivable. Will most likely lose to an IS-2. No nerfs needed.

Have to fight 60range, 240 damage, Jacksons.

How are Kittens OP again? In fact Panther and Tiger are at one of their weakest states ever in this game.

dude. why dont you take a chillpill?

the whole kittens topic came out because someone asked 'C-Mart' whether he like kittens. you knows, real kittens.

and they went on and on about how there will be a fifth faction, kitten faction in the next patch blah blah blah while playing a good map and a chokepoint city whilst not being able to comment on any real problems this game has.

I didn´t say weak, but weaker than most patches before. Remember the last patch where nobody built Panthers? That was corrected in this patch. now we can expect nerfs again?

I am honestly not sure if Panther should be nerfed regarding 1v1s, there are other problems in the equations that need to be fixed first (Call-in meta, Schreck blobs). But Panthers, KT and JT make team games ridiculously lopsided in the late game.

IS2 is the only tank that Axis can't reliably penetrate, and just look at the uproar that simple fact causes on these forums for that.

Allies have to live with that EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Your experience with IS2 is the same as Allied experience when facing anything stronger than a P4.

And we are talking about Axis, which has access to Panthers, mothergardening Jagdtigers, Panzerschrecks, Pak43, Elefants, and a lot of other antitank goodies Allies can only dream of.

Note that all this is not a defence of IS2. All units should be balanced in regards to timing, cost- and popcap- effectivity.

you guys are reading into the kittens too much. it was a JOKE idea for an april fools patch: replace all the soldier's heads with cat heads.

and then the stream became cat themed
and cats =/= tigers and panthers

but i agree, fuck relic

from Cynthia:

March 31rst won't reveal everything that we're working on. There is still lots in progress, things come in stages.


For those asking, the broadcast can be watched right here:

http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/v/3866820

A few of our other past broadcasts:

http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/profile/past_broadcasts

source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/155649-twitch-stream-tomorrow-3pm-pst-11pm-gmt/page3

Why are people getting suprised by things coming in stages? The metamap didn't look nearly done yet and I was for one was not expecting it in march.

Who is C-Mart the Compstomper?

Hopefully this patch delivers what's needed for CoH2 to thrive and expand:

-Announcement of the British Army returning to fight in the CoH franchise
-Nerfs to the US and Russian faction
-Progress update or a roadmap if you will
-announcement for new content

If Relic delivers any of these things for the next patch, my faith in them will increase.

I really hope u are trolling...

Last patch the vehicle was totally useless and crippled. It rarely deflected shots. The patch made it good again. Not overpowered but useful.

Panther is supposed to be a counter versus armor. If you are not stupid and park your vehicles in front of it, you will win.

Defeating Panthers with an equal fuel amount is btw bullshit also. It´s the most expensive non doctrinal hard counter to fuel based targets itself.

Guess what? Good usage of Panthers is rewarded, charging in your T-34s is punished. But even then there is abilities as P47 and mark target which give you the superiority and allow you to frontally engage Panthers.

A Panther on equal skill and micro level can fight 1 1/2 T-34/85s.

Panthers aren´t OP. They are the only unit that can soft-counter M36s (once vet1), but they can still be easily overwhelmed by the 240dmg and 60 range.

Your playercard btw shows that in 1vs1 you played 907 games as Allies and 133 games as Axis. That´s almost 7 times as much games as Allies. I guess your impression comes from that.

Funny because up until the Panther rebuff I played exclusivley OKW. Then the Panther and resources were buffed and I lost stomach for that faction and switched to USF.

The Panther before could be used like a much more durable Jackson. It worked fine but could have used a DPS buff. Most people just wanted the Old A Move win Panther and so chose not to build it. For Ost of course the Tech cost made it unrealistic and still does to a certain extent.

But the Jackson has less then 50% chance to Penetrate the Panther now and to even feel a threat by the Panther you must have two of them. Which for the record is a hell of alot more fuel. By your logic the Panther should have its MGs removed since its solely a tank killer and the Jackson should be able to easily handle two blitzing P4s (which it wont).

The Panther is easily the BEST Medium tank there is because the faction it faces in 1v1 has no reliable way to damage it outside of P47 skill planes. Imagine an Allied Version of the Jackson with that level or durability and MGs that can ransack.

The Panther has too much going for it to justify a 170 fuel cost:

Higher then Tiger Frontal armor on
A tank thats faster then the Jackson that
has the most HPs of a Medium tank and
longer range then any medium plus
More penetration then anything the Allies have save for a B4.

If you cant see all those qualities as a touch too much for a single unit that isnt after all 100% AT and CAN be used rather safely to crush and bleed with MGs unsupported I dont know what to tell you.

If there are no Panthers on the field or tanks what exactly can a Jackson be used for? When there are no tanks on the field what exactly can a Panther be used for?

The other alternative is to increase all Pen values of the USF and break alot of other things. The Panther is facing far to weak penetration to have the armor that it has. It has way more going for it in the survival department then any other tank in game not even including Ost having Panzer Tactician. Its essentially the Vet 5 Volks Shrek version of a tank. Something that takes a tremendous amount of skill to lose.

The Panther is the most expensive Tank Hunter in the game, and the most expensive Tank for Ostheer period. It's good at what it does doesn't mean it needs a nerf, it means that it's worth building.

If you want players to use things other than Panthers you need to actually give them options.

Also the Panther isn't a medium tank, don't compare it to medium tanks.

Oh and if you were wondering how to counter Panthers, the answer is "What in this game has a gun, and is fired by infantry units who move said gun around the map by dragging it?"

lieg

The Panther is the most expensive Tank Hunter in the game, and the most expensive Tank for Ostheer period. It's good at what it does doesn't mean it needs a nerf, it means that it's worth building.

If you want players to use things other than Panthers you need to actually give them options.

Also the Panther isn't a medium tank, don't compare it to medium tanks.

Oh and if you were wondering how to counter Panthers, the answer is "What in this game has a gun, and is fired by infantry units who move said gun around the map by dragging it?"

The very thing that gets erased by Obers almost instantly and has less then 50% chance to Pen the Panther and is in the Craptain ball punching fuel wasting Tier? That thing? Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The very thing that gets erased by Obers almost instantly and has less then 50% chance to Pen the Panther and is in the Craptain ball punching fuel wasting Tier? That thing? Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

What the American lacks in pure pen it gains in range/rof/and vet 0 turn on AP shells. And the ZiS has a 56% chance to pen the Panther.

Also a Jackson penning a Panther is a big deal, because 240 damage takes a huge chunk out of the Panthers health.

The reason AT guns are good against Panthers is because Panther's can't do shit against infantry and if your AT guns are getting erased by Obers stop sitting your AT guns infront your machine guns and infantry.

What the American lacks in pure pen it gains in range/rof/and vet 0 turn on AP shells. And the ZiS has a 56% chance to pen the Panther.

The 57mm's AP shells are less of a bonus and more of a requirement for it to work against anything tougher than a StuG, as the AP shells will more or less just bring it back up to everyone else's penetration values.

It'll still have the advantage of the fastest reload speed though, but I certainly would pay 20 more munitions to always penetrate and do 25% more damage like in CoH1...

The 57mm's AP shells are less of a bonus and more of a requirement for it to work against anything tougher than a StuG, as the AP shells will more or less just bring it back up to everyone else's penetration values.

It'll still have the advantage of the fastest reload speed though, but I certainly would pay 20 more munitions to always penetrate and do 25% more damage like in CoH1...

Nope Pak is still faster. I thought it too had the highest reload. Sadly it doesnt.

Obers will always be with Panthers. So when you WOULD use the ATG against the Panthers a good Player will have them nearby. At which point you must pull back the ATG making it useless.

Not a problem with Ostheer but for OKW where the Panther is the biggest problem. The Range is very nice this is true but again Panther we are talking about. Lowest Pen at the highest Range wont do crap to the Panther. The Jackson has the best chance but EVERYBODY likes to look at the damage per shot not the DPS. The Jackson will not Alpha strike a Panther. And compared to the SU85 the DPS isnt anything special. The only thing going for the Jack is Alpha strike against Mediums speed and a Turret. The speed doesnt help very much against a Panther.

Its MEDIOCRE at best not game changing. When they released WFA everyone seems to forget the original design concept video was the Jackson had an equal chance to beat a Panther as the Panther had to beat the Jackson. If the Jackson was supported and got first shot advantage and was microd away it would kill the Panther and if the Panther got the first shot it would win.

The buff changed this ENTIRELY for no specific reason other than LETS JUST REVERT THE PANTHERS NERFs.

Please when comparing the two look at the Time to Kill the Panther for the Jackson and the Time to kill the Jackson for the Panther.

This more then anything has broken the late game USF against OKW. The King Tiger is gated and appropriate for fuel and opportunity cost. The Panther can arrive at the same time as a Sherman. That has no opportunity cost for the Performance it provides in the faction in which is resides.