OKW Redesign

You have asserted this in every single thread you have ever posted in, and in 800 hours of COH2 Iv seen it happen exactly once. Stop assuming everything happens in a perfect world were Axis wins every engagement and has 100% map control when factoring in vehicle construction times.

And Iv already said it would be prudent with these changes to move the JPIV to T3.

Yeah learn the game first, obviously everything should be balanced around ones. Oh wait that's fucking stupid because more than 2 factions exist.


JPIV wouldn't hit the field till you put T3 down, and it would be only marginally cheaper than a Panther which could max hit the field at ~19 minutes. And that's if you decide to make very little in the way of infantry.

You saw only once Panther at 13min? With your changes you will see Panther in every game and sometimes at 10min.

Axis wins almost every engagement in 4v4. 46W 7L (my placercard) can tell you something. Axis in 4v4 is trolololo. With AT team is even more trolololo. Once we did 3 OST 1 OKW. All 3 OST went for elite troops. I was OKW one. I spammed 5 kubels, enemy cannot move anywhere. Then I made 18min KT. at 24min my KT was vet 5 casue of Elite troops trolololo.
No matter what you do in 4v4 as axis you almost always win. Even with AI as you teammate.

Wont hit the field before T3? That's weird... I was able to make med truck, call in Falsch and make Jadgpanzer around 10min and then choosing between T3/T4.
With that you can repel Sherman rush.

Feel free to explain your logic.

Because you combine all the awesome of other factions into one while trying to nullify all OKW weaknesses in the name of balance. Awesome infantry, powerful tanks, cheap tanks, mobile anti-infantry, howitzers and the commanders just being the icing on your super powerful cake.

You saw only once Panther at 13min? With your changes you will see Panther in every game and sometimes at 10min.

Axis wins almost every engagement in 4v4. 46W 7L (my placercard) can tell you something. Axis in 4v4 is trolololo. With AT team is even more trolololo. Once we did 3 OST 1 OKW. All 3 OST went for elite troops. I was OKW one. I spammed 5 kubels, enemy cannot move anywhere. Then I made 18min KT. at 24min my KT was vet 5 casue of Elite troops trolololo.
No matter what you do in 4v4 as axis you almost always win. Even with AI as you teammate.

Wont hit the field before T3? That's weird... I was able to make med truck, call in Falsch and make Jadgpanzer around 10min and then choosing between T3/T4.
With that you can repel Sherman rush.

Iv seen Panther maybe once at 15 minutes, but neither me or my team mates almost ever go Panther. And Panther whores are so stupid easy to beat Iv never really considered it a issue. Iv lost count of the amount of times Iv fucked OKW players who through they were being a smart ass by getting nothing but panthers.

AT gun + Mines + not T34/76s. There you go. Also the Panther WILL get messed up by a few Jackson hits. My Allies AT's always go for at least 1 or 2 USF Players for back up, just gotta love those Rifles + Jacksons + Scotts.

And I don't really thing stupid troll strats that work against noobs is an indication of anything, if you want to see how powerful a good allied AT can be just watch Wockaflocka!

Because you combine all the awesome of other factions into one while trying to nullify all OKW weaknesses in the name of balance. Awesome infantry, powerful tanks, cheap tanks, mobile anti-infantry, howitzers and the commanders just being the icing on your super powerful cake.

You maybe didn't get it from the other 20 posts in this thread Iv made, but if you look at the costs of everything there is no way you can actually spam/get all of those things. Your supposed to weigh risk and reward. Do I get this expensive howitzer? Do I get a Panther? What if they have lots of AT guns? Do I get a Flak Trak? Or Maybe a Sturmtiger? But you can only get 1, and it will be bloody hard to replace.

I'll right a big effort post on a proposed redesign of Soviets soon, gotta to homework atm tho.

And I should also explain that no unit should be be TERRIBLE like the SU-76 or Stuart, which have no real place in the current meta. The reason each unit Iv changed/created has a specific place, is that you should be choosing between different units that are good! But fulfill different rolls.

Cost never justifies performance. Having everything but at a high cost is better than having 1/5th of everything but at a lower cost. You are more flexible and less reliant on specific builds and units (check ostheer for limited tech example).

Soviets are the "flexible" faction being able to choose half their tiering, but unable to purchase the other teching (refers to 120 fuel cost of both T3 and T4). And yet, the Soviet early game is the most powerful, but the late game in this day and age hidden behind commanders (which imo options are also the most diverse compared to other things, and thus, has all the power)

So... This meta OKW faction is nearly all of Soviets minus crap teching plus nearly all the commanders within the stock arsenal (not like OKW atm isnt already this).

Why would this faction design choice be allowed? Complete adaptation voids the "negative" of slightly increased manpower costs (which can be obtained in an extra minute) for several minutes boost in tech and time because of shrunken fuel costs. Who would ever play Ostheer, even if buffed, ever again?

There isn't complete adaptation, unless StG's do damage to tanks, which they don't.

And cost 100% justifies performance, because cost affects how easily you can build it or replace it.

The point of this is that it jives with the current OKW design, with good stock units that do what you need to them to do, with commanders just changing your play style so you can adapt to certain things.

And I wouldn't call a 50% increase in MP cost "slightly" your vastly under estimating how high MP drain can be in competitive games.

EDIT: And speaking of Ostheer, I actually molded this faction after Ostheer in a round about way. Ostheer has good stock units, and 100% fuel income, but can't build everything because of the MP drain they have.

There is one sure thing about what OP has written. OKW lacks indirect fire. I mean nerfs to obers/manpower/anything relics comes up with should come but the faction just lacks it.

There is no need to argue that no other faction has non-doc arty, no other also has non-doc heavy tank. Just that kind of faction.

It shouldn't get static arty but mobile one. For example ISG should be replaced by nebelwerfer that could be hauled by crew like ISG. It would just do the job of a mortar and rocket artilery with barrage and smoke abilities but it should be the weakest rocket artilery, mainly because of calliber and only 6 shots, some kind like katyusha normal barrage but only one, or slightly bigger one.

As for other tiers stuka can be replaced with Wespe and sturmtiger with Hummel in their tiers. Those mobile artilery pieces should need to manually reload after every barrage with crit chance like sturmtiger does and should not be able to move until they end their barrage when first shot fires. They can have some unique abilities, different range and firepower not to make them too similar.

All three proposed artillery pieces were extensively used in the battle of the bulge, more than units that exist in the game right now.

All three removed units should, in my opinion, be moved to some new commanders as okw lacks them without changing their performance.

If the goal was to make OKW, more fun to play, and to make it the only faction to play...

Then great success!

You can spend a lot of cash for units/gear that will kill 3 times its worth.

You can adapt to all enemy commanders and strats without needing a commander.

Your life is easier as every faction can pull manpower out of its ass as MP income is directly changed by the player simply through the buying and reinforcing of units while fuel to this degree takes much longer to get and can be taken by the enemy.

I would play this and nothing else forever. That is NOT the goal of faction design...

(In which mentioned new units would be lumped into commanders without exception) Sorry, but strict choices have to exist and be limited in availability. Its against game design and none such faction will ever and should never exist.

If the goal was to make OKW, more fun to play, and to make it the only faction to play...

Then great success!

You can spend a lot of cash for units/gear that will kill 3 times its worth.

You can adapt to all enemy commanders and strats without needing a commander.

Your life is easier as every faction can pull manpower out of its ass as MP income is directly changed by the player simply through the buying and reinforcing of units while fuel to this degree takes much longer to get and can be taken by the enemy.

I would play this and nothing else forever. That is NOT the goal of faction design...

(In which mentioned new units would be lumped into commanders without exception) Sorry, but strict choices have to exist and be limited in availability. Its against game design and none such faction will ever and should never exist.

You should be able to adapt to all commanders and stats with out need a commander. Iv said multiple times in multiple threads than the OKW design philosophy should be shared by every faction.

And no, that unit wouldn't kill 3 times it's cost, it would be fighting cheaper units and thus you would be suffering attrition harder than your enemy would if you were so reckless with your units.

Your not taking into account the MP drain we already see in competitive play (while fuel float is extremely common). But I'll run the numbers again and look at timing. I might just bring OKW fuel up to 100% and get rid of the 33% price reduction while keeping the increased MP cost.

There is one sure thing about what OP has written. OKW lacks indirect fire. I mean nerfs to obers/manpower/anything relics comes up with should come but the faction just lacks it.

There is no need to argue that no other faction has non-doc arty, no other also has non-doc heavy tank. Just that kind of faction.

It shouldn't get static arty but mobile one. For example ISG should be replaced by nebelwerfer that could be hauled by crew like ISG. It would just do the job of a mortar and rocket artilery with barrage and smoke abilities but it should be the weakest rocket artilery, mainly because of calliber and only 6 shots, some kind like katyusha normal barrage but only one, or slightly bigger one.

As for other tiers stuka can be replaced with Wespe and sturmtiger with Hummel in their tiers. Those mobile artilery pieces should need to manually reload after every barrage with crit chance like sturmtiger does and should not be able to move until they end their barrage when first shot fires. They can have some unique abilities, different range and firepower not to make them too similar.

All three proposed artillery pieces were extensively used in the battle of the bulge, more than units that exist in the game right now.

All three removed units should, in my opinion, be moved to some new commanders as okw lacks them without changing their performance.

Static artillery was much more common in the bulge for the Germans at least, fuel shortages made mechanized artillery pretty much a thing of the past. I made the added howitzers static because I didn't want to give OKW any more mobile indirect while the stuka exists.

Artillery is the best blob punisher in the game and every faction should have quite liberal access to it.

Ok, so a large reworked OKW would require a large reworking of the other 3 factions as well as nearly all the commanders.

I was assuming something that can be realistically done by Relic, but like hell anything of the sort will ever happen... Relic has never touched the final release of any faction design. Not even a simple unit switch between tiers... (excluding alpha balance changes)

Ok, so a large reworked OKW would require a large reworking of the other 3 factions as well as nearly all the commanders.

I was assuming something that can be realistically done by Relic, but like hell anything of the sort will ever happen... Relic has never touched the final release of any faction design. Not even a simple unit switch between tiers... (excluding alpha balance changes)

That's why I said just including a few of these ideas would be nice, but it's fun to discuss things.

pretty pictures don't make bad ideas better

lol +1

I should also mention with these changes you can't have 2 converted HT's in the same sector FYI, so no sim city for you!

New idea time!

Each truck converted after your first gives you two levels of Vet. You can only get to Vet 1 after converting the first, and Vet 3 after the second!

Vet 5 comes when you covert all 3 trucks.

lol okw bias makes my nipples so pointy

Hmm is this a joke or are you really going around whining about OKW bias when you got a grand total of 2 games under your belt as OKW? Seems a bit twatty don't ya think?

He proved to be quite immune to explanations in pretty much every single other thread anyone attempted to do it.
No wonder people don't want to waste time and forum space.

That being said, his changes fix absolutely nothing and create even more imbalance with even more powerful OKW locking down armor even faster.

Panther arriving as soon or sooner then T34/76 would?
JP4 being able to his the field then halftrucks and armored cars have opportunity window?
Absolutely nothing to adress shreckblob and ubers? He completely ignored the sources of OKW imbalances, took the rest of the army and made sure every single unit is completely imbalanced and overpowered, his proposal to AA HT alone makes his post scream "I have no slightest idea what OKW units ares intended to do, but I'm ignore it and randomly buff them anyway even thou they perform excellent already".

Yea, right, screams balance.

This.

This.

You didn't even read the thread.

I'm about as big a US fanboy as it gets but I don't think okw needs that much work. I'd say all you'd need to change is stopping the schwerhq/flak truck from being able to be built until the first two trucks have been made. This would stop the quick volks to obers to panthers route. Okw players would have to rely on more diverse units to counter infantry instead of rushing to obers which would in turn require fuel delaying the panther even more. Plus the super flak gun wouldn't come so early that its a problem

I cannot belive i wasted my time reading this.....then u relize it was Alexandvar and all was clear, that being said this thread shouldnt be place in the comedy section.