OKW manpower penalty?

How impressive Vet 5 Volks are depends entirely on the strategy your enemy is employing. If he's going heavy tanks like the IS2 or ISU or KV1 your shreks are worth diddly, and his Shocks are still going to smoke you.

Vet 5 Volks are more of an issue for USF, who don't have MBT's can can deal with shreks. You can 1 shot them with the Scott, but your medium armor will be getting worse off and harder to micro as the game goes on.

+60% accuracy and -49% received accuracy with Schrecks, nades and 23mp reinforce

NOPE NOT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL

+ ^^^ This makes VG very impressive!

I'll bring this topic back once again instead of creating a new one as I fell OKW has too easy access to this resource.
Due to MP float they are able to reinforce their units or even replenish the losses too easily.
I think that's due to OKW units being very effective in combat. Instead of tweaking with units them self overall MP penalty (lets say 80%, similar to ammunition) would provide better solution.

I'll bring this topic back once again instead of creating a new one as I fell OKW has too easy access to this resource.
Due to MP float they are able to reinforce their units or even replenish the losses too easily.
I think that's due to OKW units being very effective in combat. Instead of tweaking with units them self overall MP penalty (lets say 80%, similar to ammunition) would provide better solution.

Won't that be too much with the recent nerf? I think we should wait a month to see how the meta will evolve and stabilize.

USF and Sov are stronger than OKW in 1v1 on this patch, calm down on the nerf

how the meta will evolve and stabilize.

Translation: "let's see if Allied can steamroll OKW yet. They still can't? Damn' .... nurf OKW further!!"

If you have used OKW in this patch you would know they do not float at all anymore, especially with Fallschirmjager or mg34 doctrines. Perhaps you should adapt your strategy away from volks into obers into tanks.

OZ I agree. OKW can still float WAY too much MP when used properly. But I think a penalty to their MP isnt the way to go. Its their ability to project firepower and melt opposing Infantry especially in a blob. It makes it very easy for them to push an Infantry Force off and if it doesnt work instantly retreat without taking many losses themselves.

Combine this with their excellent Vet that is pretty easy to obtain with their AI infantry since its primarily damage based and they DEAL ALOT OF DAMAGE and you see what we have today.

Also they arent using Pop cap on alot of vehicles because its easy to get along with just Infantry and maybe 1-2 tanks.

Its a huge design issue and there isnt any easy way to fix it without making OKW too weak.

TLDR the float is an issue I have NO idea how to fix it without breaking OKW.

OZ I agree. OKW can still float WAY too much MP when used properly. But I think a penalty to their MP isnt the way to go. Its their ability to project firepower and melt opposing Infantry especially in a blob. It makes it very easy for them to push an Infantry Force off and if it doesnt work instantly retreat without taking many losses themselves.

Combine this with their excellent Vet that is pretty easy to obtain with their AI infantry since its primarily damage based and they DEAL ALOT OF DAMAGE and you see what we have today.

Also they arent using Pop cap on alot of vehicles because its easy to get along with just Infantry and maybe 1-2 tanks.

Its a huge design issue and there isnt any easy way to fix it without making OKW too weak.

TLDR the float is an issue I have NO idea how to fix it without breaking OKW.

Interesting points I didn't considered before.

OZ I agree. OKW can still float WAY too much MP when used properly. But I think a penalty to their MP isnt the way to go. Its their ability to project firepower and melt opposing Infantry especially in a blob. It makes it very easy for them to push an Infantry Force off and if it doesnt work instantly retreat without taking many losses themselves.

Combine this with their excellent Vet that is pretty easy to obtain with their AI infantry since its primarily damage based and they DEAL ALOT OF DAMAGE and you see what we have today.

Also they arent using Pop cap on alot of vehicles because its easy to get along with just Infantry and maybe 1-2 tanks.

Its a huge design issue and there isnt any easy way to fix it without making OKW too weak.

TLDR the float is an issue I have NO idea how to fix it without breaking OKW.

Want to fix the float? Easy, create more MP dumps through Opal trucks or increase the price of Volks while increasing their performance. Making things cost more is fine as long as you make sure to adjust the units performance to match the cost.

Your also overestimating how much pop cap influences float, OKW floats because it has nothing to spend MP on but more infantry, not because it has to much income or not enough things taking up population cap. Soviet infantry is just as cheap and plentiful as OKW infantry, but your not floating MP because you have access to vehicles.

Want to fix the float? Easy, create more MP dumps through Opal trucks or increase the price of Volks while increasing their performance. Making things cost more is fine as long as you make sure to adjust the units performance to match the cost.

Your also overestimating how much pop cap influences float, OKW floats because it has nothing to spend MP on but more infantry, not because it has to much income or not enough things taking up population cap. Soviet infantry is just as cheap and plentiful as OKW infantry, but your not floating MP because you have access to vehicles.

You would make for a WORST game designer ever.

"Hey, we have this resource inflation problem, lets fix it by making all other resources inflated or by changing absolutely nothing to the value vs return ratio on the infantry that is too cost effective and doesn't bleed nearly as hard as other armies infantry, lets ignore actual problem and make it a mindless buff for overperforming amry!"

Want to fix the float? Easy, create more MP dumps through Opal trucks or increase the price of Volks while increasing their performance. Making things cost more is fine as long as you make sure to adjust the units performance to match the cost.

Your also overestimating how much pop cap influences float, OKW floats because it has nothing to spend MP on but more infantry, not because it has to much income or not enough things taking up population cap. Soviet infantry is just as cheap and plentiful as OKW infantry, but your not floating MP because you have access to vehicles.

So your solution is to take all of this inflated excess of manpower and transfer it into other resources so OKW can produce even more units with less effort?
How this fix the problem exactly? To allow for 10 minute Panther?

You would make for a WORST game designer ever.

"Hey, we have this resource inflation problem, lets fix it by making all other resources inflated or by changing absolutely nothing to the value vs return ratio on the infantry that is too cost effective and doesn't bleed nearly as hard as other armies infantry, lets ignore actual problem and make it a mindless buff for overperforming amry!"

OKW bleeds just as hard as all the other factions, but it can only replace it's losses with infantry instead of tanks. Every faction BUT OKW has access to being able to spend MP to increase munitions and fuel income but OKW.

If every other faction doesn't MP float, and OKW does, it might be because OKW isn't getting the proper tools it needs to in order to not float MP.

Think about it, Soviets have call in infantry just like OKW, high cost infantry to. It also has plentiful cheap infantry as well. Why do Soviets not float MP? Because they have access to MP dumps in the form of caches and tanks.

Ostheer isn't MP floating because it's teching is very MP intensive and it's infantry is expensive to reinforce.

USF isn't because it's most basic infantry is expensive and takes up a fair amount of popcap, it also needs to spend a lot of MP on tanks.

So your solution is to take all of this inflated excess of manpower and transfer it into other resources so OKW can produce even more units with less effort?
How this fix the problem exactly? To allow for 10 minute Panther?

The MP float doesn't happen until mid to late game, if you spammed Opal trucks you would have no infantry to speak of. I think your forgetting OKW has the least starting MP of any faction in the game.

I also suggested that the basic OKW infantry gets better but more expensive, which would also help fix the float. USF has effective but expensive basic infantry and they don't float at all!

Want to fix the float? Easy, create more MP dumps through Opal trucks or increase the price of Volks while increasing their performance. Making things cost more is fine as long as you make sure to adjust the units performance to match the cost.

Your also overestimating how much pop cap influences float, OKW floats because it has nothing to spend MP on but more infantry, not because it has to much income or not enough things taking up population cap. Soviet infantry is just as cheap and plentiful as OKW infantry, but your not floating MP because you have access to vehicles.

Reinforce and Pop cap affect Float DRASTICALLY. And your underestimating power of units and force concentration. When 1 unit costs double of another and does double the DPS of the other it is exponentially superior due to force concentration and availability of cover.

Example if I am used and have a 50 Pop cap with vehicles and infantry I am bleeding 100 MP a min.

OKW with the same relative power but 75MP a min drain due to no vehicles and just infantry carrying all sorts of counters like Shreks and High AI DPS can easily run into the opposing force and instantly start inflicing casulties in a smaller area and instantly retreat before they take any themselves if they sense it wont be a steam roll.

Having super high DPS infantry you can Alpha strike and retreat for no loss to your own MP but a loss to the opponents.

AI/AT power to unit effciency is NON LINEAR. But its currently treated in a Linear fashion.

Reinforce and Pop cap affect Float DRASTICALLY. And your underestimating power of units and force concentration. When 1 unit costs double of another and does double the DPS of the other it is exponentially superior due to force concentration and availability of cover.

Example if I am used and have a 50 Pop cap with vehicles and infantry I am bleeding 100 MP a min.

OKW with the same relative power but 75MP a min drain due to no vehicles and just infantry carrying all sorts of counters like Shreks and High AI DPS can easily run into the opposing force and instantly start inflicing casulties in a smaller area and instantly retreat before they take any themselves if they sense it wont be a steam roll.

Having super high DPS infantry you can Alpha strike and retreat for no loss to your own MP but a loss to the opponents.

AI/AT power to unit effciency is NON LINEAR. But its currently treated in a Linear fashion.

A OKW player with no armor will get his ass kicked just like any other player that forgoes making any kind of armor, but more than often as OKW you are not getting any kind of choice.

You can't make tanks because the game won't let you. It gates all your vehicles behind large costs on top of a fuel penalty meaning that you normally will only ever be seeing 10% of OKW's unit roster in a game because there is little incentive to diversify your army thanks to the resource disadvantage.

Your looking to hard a OKW in a vacuum. OKW's infantry really isn't anything to call home about when things like Shocks, 1919 Para's and Riflemen, as well as the finally viable guards exist. Every faction has a plethora of good infantry now, but with OKW infantry is all they have.

Instead of thinking about how you can adjust OKW in a vacuum, think about why the other faction's don't float MP. It's because they all have MP dumps, tanks, and more than 2 fucking support weapons.

A OKW player with no armor will get his ass kicked just like any other player that forgoes making any kind of armor, but more than often as OKW you are not getting any kind of choice.

You can't make tanks because the game won't let you. It gates all your vehicles behind large costs on top of a fuel penalty meaning that you normally will only ever be seeing 10% of OKW's unit roster in a game because there is little incentive to diversify your army thanks to the resource disadvantage.

Your looking to hard a OKW in a vacuum. OKW's infantry really isn't anything to call home about when things like Shocks, 1919 Para's and Riflemen, as well as the finally viable guards exist. Every faction has a plethora of good infantry now, but with OKW infantry is all they have.

Instead of thinking about how you can adjust OKW in a vacuum, think about why the other faction's don't float MP. It's because they all have MP dumps, tanks, and more than 2 fucking support weapons.

OKW has very efficient units relative to strength survability and pop cap. Its very simple. Soviets can match or surpass their strenght but its very Pop cap inefficient to do so (Guards/STs/IS2)

USF can match their or surpass their firepower in certain situations through more spending of resources but lack the Survability so they will always have a higher bleed. AB for example are bleed machines. Strong yes...bleed tons. With Officers and Ambulance just wasting Pop cap.

OKW has very efficient units relative to strength survability and pop cap. Its very simple. Soviets can match or surpass their strenght but its very Pop cap inefficient to do so (Guards/STs/IS2)

USF can match their or surpass their firepower in certain situations through more spending of resources but lack the Survability so they will always have a higher bleed. AB for example are bleed machines. Strong yes...bleed tons. With Officers and Ambulance just wasting Pop cap.

You know that OKW units take lots of pop cap up to right? Obers take up 10, as in 10% of your pop cap for a single infantry unit.

Your very first unit that you get at the start of the game takes up 9 pop cap.

OKW once upon a time could beat anyone in infantry based fire power, but every faction is about equal now in terms of fire power. OKW just appears to have more because they are forced to spam infantry units.

Again, OKW units are no more or less efficient than any other factions, OKW units can still easily get squad wiped, the reason the float occurs is because you have no spending options but more infantry and no MP dumps.

Why, pray tell, do you think Soviets who have good basic infantry and good elite infantry don't float MP?

OKW has very efficient units relative to strength survability and pop cap. Its very simple. Soviets can match or surpass their strenght but its very Pop cap inefficient to do so (Guards/STs/IS2)

USF can match their or surpass their firepower in certain situations through more spending of resources but lack the Survability so they will always have a higher bleed. AB for example are bleed machines. Strong yes...bleed tons. With Officers and Ambulance just wasting Pop cap.

That is in the past. At this moment okw really struggles in infantry battles. im really interested to see their win/loss ratio in 1vs1 now.

The MP float doesn't happen until mid to late game, if you spammed Opal trucks you would have no infantry to speak of. I think your forgetting OKW has the least starting MP of any faction in the game.

I also suggested that the basic OKW infantry gets better but more expensive, which would also help fix the float. USF has effective but expensive basic infantry and they don't float at all!

No, you buy your initial squads and if you didn't take any serious losses during engagement you start floating MP waiting for tanks. If you're smart and take your fights wisely you can hold on to your side of the map and using Flack truck sit tight until tanks arrive without any other spending. OKW early game ahsn't been affected by last patch if I remember correctly.
If you will be able to use this outstanding manpower to convert it into other resources you will be able to field Panther in like 10th minute of the game which is unbalanced as f'''k.

Considering snipers strats are never that effective on OKW it's never hard to see thiey are hard to MP drain.