Damn this balance

So you consider an unit that has 25 % more hp and penetration with only slightly less armour and dps to be equal tot he p4. dude test it out yourself a battle between a 85 and a p4 is 10/10 in favour for the 85.

Test yourself, T-34/76 vs Panzer IV, the latter wins 10/10.


In a vacuum, Panzer IV is outmatched. In reality, it has better vet and Axis only support items like Panzerschreck or Panzer Tactician or Blitz so it can easily get away from situations where others are not around to make up for its minor disadvantages, so it makes sense for the Soviet tank to have the better stats especially with Panther around. Compare to the Panzer vs 76 matchup where Panzer has both advantages. Axis is or about should be supporting fewer tanks with your great support and getting the best out of them but you don't have to do that against Soviet stock vehicles.

It should of course cost as much as it does in the single Advanced Warfare call in. Consider that. And check my thread for more elaborate arguments on this.

lol, you got one thread locked, isn't that enough?

I take this as a no then.

To be honest I didn't expect anything more from you, which only confirms my original opinion.

Test yourself, T-34/76 vs Panzer IV, the latter wins 10/10.


In a vacuum, Panzer IV is outmatched. In reality, it has better vet and Axis only support items like Panzerschreck or Panzer Tactician or Blitz so it can easily get away from situations where others are not around to make up for its minor disadvantages, so it makes sense for the Soviet tank to have the better stats especially with Panther around. Compare to the Panzer vs 76 matchup where Panzer has both advantages. Axis is or about should be supporting fewer tanks with your great support and getting the best out of them but you don't have to do that against Soviet stock vehicles.

It should of course cost as much as it does in the single Advanced Warfare call in. Consider that. And check my thread for more elaborate arguments on this.

I actually did test it. It was more of a 7/10 in favour for the p4. the differences between the p4 and the t-34 is minor compared to the p4 vs e8/85/ su sherman. And you can support i can say how much. you forget that support is not free and the su and usf have their own support.

That said my issue is not with the p4 . The biggest issue with ost tier 3 is the lack of a tank destroyer tier 3 and unlike SU who can pump out su85's the ost really gets no choice. if you tech up to tier 4 to get a panther you are fucked if you are up against callins because your single panther is going to face 4 e8's/85's.

I will agree with Jaigen (gasp) T-34/85 wrecks P4 in 1 v 1 battle. The T-34/85 has a superb gun and better armor. Swapping T-34/85 in T3 for the soviets will not solve any problems with the call ins. What I think is a good idea is to take a "Upgrade Sherman Gun" ability from vCOH and apply it to T3 and T4 for USF.

85 at 400 MP 140 fuel is a good tie-in for Panzer IV. Soviets also get no equalivent to Panther, so asymmetrical balance should be in effect here, giving Soviets something in between.

Panzer IV has mobility advantage over SU-85 and there are times when it will be able to kill it in 1v1, such as when flanking in a wide open map like Vaux Farmlands.

That said, Panzer IV still doesn't lose its relevance as the least bit of support, most of which is not available to Soviets in any way (Panzerschreck, Panzer Tactician, Combat Blitz) makes the difference null. Just like how 85 supported by an AT gun can deal with a Panther.

And I never argued that support units costed nothing, just that Soviets deserve the better raw stats here. The tank already comes in for cheaper and like only 2 minutes later being a doctrinal unit, so putting it to T3 doesn't make it much faster. And it also gives the Soviet player a great incentive to tech up beyond T1/T2 while making call-ins less attractive, so I find it odd how you can claim it does absolutely nothing to combat the call-in meta.

And at a closing note, only a biased player would be okay with Panzer IV having both far superior support and far superior stats to the 76, with a negligible cost reduction in return for the latter. 76 is barely useful and it shows. Maybe it would be decent with T4 support, but nobody has the fuel for that and more importantly, it doesn't make sense to do that when you can call in a doctrinal IS-2 good for everything.

Don't forget Vet2 PzIV is a beast!

I don't mind, getting games as Soviets instantly after pressing the search button xd. Just don't take this game seriously anymore, play a few games just to have fun, troll around a bit, kill the blobs with some arty etc. This game is a joke, treat it as such and you will have a joke and a blast.

NEVER play it for a balanced and well designed experience!

The main issue is that the SU and USF are simply unattractive. That's probably why you see most people playing as axis.Poor SOVs are portrayed awfully in this game.

Same thing with the Red Orchestra 2 game, the axis side is always full, and you are forced to play as allies.


I mean no one wants to play as the uncivilized angry mob. Deal with it

The main issue is that the SU and USF are simply unattractive. That's probably why you see most people playing as axis.Poor SOVs are portrayed awfully in this game.

Same thing with the Red Orchestra 2 game, the axis side is always full, and you are forced to play as allies.


I mean no one wants to play as the uncivilized angry mob. Deal with it

Well this is constructive.

Well this is constructive.

Well you guys need to stop crying "Why no one is playing as allies". .

Just play the game and have fun. And if it's not fun for you, uninstall and enjoy life instead. Starting a new thread everyday won't change anything that much.

I play AT 2v2 games with a friend and we usually play as Axis due to him liking playing as Axis. On my own I like to play 2v2 Randoms as Soviets due to B4 and Demos being a blast to play with(horrible pun not intended). It is fun to see a swarm of Exp float up in the middle of a red mist when you hit the plunger.

I actually find Soviets to be the best faction right now. The only thing they struggle with is King Tiger, but otherwise when me and my friend play as Axis we face some really hard to beat Soviet and USF strategies(this could be due to only hardcore players being left on the Allies side).

I really don't find Soviets call-in meta to be as boring as some people suggest, due to the call-ins being varied(IS-2, ISU, T34-85s, KV-1+B-4 are all viable). I find the most boring factions to play are OKW and USF. Yeah OKW gets to be critical mass late game, but you get pushed around early and mid game and the BO is fairly linear every game.

USF has the same problem, but reversed, your rifles get max powered around mid-game then suffer against late game tanks and infantry. The BO is not quite as linear as OKW, but the options are few, go for P47 spam or go for E8 spam.

I take this as a no then.

To be honest I didn't expect anything more from you, which only confirms my original opinion.

Yeah, I'm not going to 1v1 you because I'm not a 1v1 player, I assume you would be equally incredulous if I asked you to play any of my AT's. Although it is funny your so petty that you would demand a 1v1 because someone disagrees with you on the internet instead of offering any kind of actual argument.

Yeah, I'm not going to 1v1 you because I'm not a 1v1 player, I assume you would be equally incredulous if I asked you to play any of my AT's. Although it is funny your so petty that you would demand a 1v1 because someone disagrees with you on the internet instead of offering any kind of actual argument.

No, I wanted to check if your constant OKW related spamming in balance forum is supported by you being decently skilled in this game. The only way to see this is 1v1, so no one is able to be carried by their team mates. Your proposal to play your AT team is very hilarious. Thank you for the invite, but no. I don't think I do need to explain myself.

Yes, T-34-76s are utter garbage, they were usefull before the reload nerf (with T2 and in numbers they could tackle axis tanks). Giving that back would make T3 usefull again.

T-34-85s, T2 and mines everywhere...now soviets don't even have to worry about Tigers, nevermind poor axis T3. I don't want to see a 9-10 CP tank around 9-12 mins raping everything.

For team games; hordes of 85s with snipers and atgs backed up by some 152s or is-2s while mines/demos stop every and all advance....great idea making the Opest Union even stronger.

Your dready Panzer Tactician can be counter by attack ground.
Panzersherck squads are pricy and fragile.
Blitz is still stupid, I give you that.

Ostheer either spam paks or tries something with these abilities, but as you know Ostheer is pretty muni starved, and your talking about the superior P4's ability only end up delaying mines, LMGs and medic upgrade....so Ostheer would be screwed pretty badly either way. If you don't believe me I say this because I played shit tons of 1v1s, 2v2s and this is how I see this.

No, I wanted to check if your constant OKW related spamming in balance forum is supported by you being decently skilled in this game. The only way to see this is 1v1, so no one is able to be carried by their team mates. Your proposal to play your AT team is very hilarious. Thank you for the invite, but no. I don't think I do need to explain myself.

I play with AT's because I play this game with friends. I don't see why this is such an issue. Most team games end up with little individual 1v1's happening across the map. I like discuss balance because you can find me in stream chats and I enjoy theory crafting.

You insistence on following me around and accusing me of being bad is starting to really, really get old.

If you weren't making such a BS statements I wouldn't.

Theory crafting is one thing, talking nonsense is other.


I ma done with you. If you decide to prove how much you're worth I'm always up for a 1v1 match. Just PM me.

If you weren't making such a BS statements I wouldn't.

Theory crafting is one thing, talking nonsense is other.


I ma done with you. If you decide to prove how much you're worth I'm always up for a 1v1 match. Just PM me.

You have yet to prove a single thing Iv ever said is BS, and why should I need to prove my worth to a person who won't even make the barest attempt at a debate?

So you consider an unit that has 25 % more hp and penetration with only slightly less armour and dps to be equal tot he p4. dude test it out yourself a battle between a 85 and a p4 is 10/10 in favour for the 85.

But using your own words:

Yeah lets ignore the fact that these units cost more.

Although, I agree that plain REPLACING of T-34/76 with T-34-85 will be overkill, even if T-34-85 will cost more.
There should be some other way, like adding KV-85 (armor/hp/speed of KV and gun of T-34-85, high cost), however, it is very unlikely.

Well you guys need to stop crying "Why no one is playing as allies". .

Just play the game and have fun. And if it's not fun for you, uninstall and enjoy life instead. Starting a new thread everyday won't change anything that much.

How can you have fun when you are puting much effort to win, you plan all your actions, micro your troops and try to play tacticaly and the enemy just a moves on you then mass retreats and when you want to chase him down SUPRISE King tiger GG. It is easy to write Uninstall and play Axis but really that is not constructive.

Well you guys need to stop crying "Why no one is playing as allies". .

Just play the game and have fun. And if it's not fun for you, uninstall and enjoy life instead. Starting a new thread everyday won't change anything that much.

I see it as a form of therapy. Also if relic doesn't see any negative feedback it simply reinforces what they are doing.

As to the game not being fun, well it was fun until relic went full retard on Western Fronts and just turned the game in a giant clusterf*** which is seemingly predominately populated by scrubs just having a bash....