The Jackson TD desperately needs smoke dischargers.

...How?

The Jackson already has horrible amounts of over-penetration for all of Ost T3 and most OKW vehicles.

Buffing the long range pen will hurt heavy tanks more, sure. But when you're never bouncing on a PzIV or StuG anyway, it's going to made nada difference to the PzIV/Jackson combat outcome.

When you only bounce 1 in 100 shots to begin with (never mind if you pop your special super rounds), the functional increase in average damage per shot is utterly trivial against medium tanks.

It's like saying that buffing Jagdtiger pen would hurt the t-70, it's not going to even begin to matter...

OK, let me say it this way: buffing its pen without reducing damage will make it more viable vs heavier armor, sure, but it won't change the fact that OST T3 is useless, T4 is overpriced and OST will still have to rely on heavy call-ins.

Horrible amounts of over-penetration only applies to the StuG and Ostwind, the PZIV has 180 armor but it doesn't really matter.

Every stock TD (SU-85, JPIV) has good penetration but 160 damage. Why does the Jackson have to be the exception? Good penetration (after proposed buffs), 240 damage and a turret.

I totally support a pen buff, but at the cost of damage otherwise it would simply be too strong.

Jackson needs a way to spot for himself.

Ostheer has a doctrinal vision upgrade, maybe USF should have one as well

So far, 65% agree that it needs improvements, such as increased long range accuracy and pen, Def smoke and HIGH-AP rounds as the default shell.

35% of participants think that "It's OP as fuck and denies ma Panza IV total map domination".



Of course all of these buffs would come with a price increase, which means it will be available later. So by the time the first jacskon comes out, you have a skirted panzer IV plus a panther.

So far, 65% agree that it needs improvements, such as increased long range accuracy and pen, Def smoke and HIGH-AP rounds as the default shell.

35% of participants think that "It's OP as fuck and denies ma Panza IV total map domination".



Of course all of these buffs would come with a price increase, which means it will be available later. So by the time the first jacskon comes out, you have a skirted panzer IV plus a panther.

I don't know if we're playing the same game, but whenever I'm playing USF against Ostheer and they're going T3, I always get the first tank out, be it a Sherman or a Jackson. To say an Axis player can have both a panther and a Panzer IV out while you just get your first Jackson is absurd, even if there was to be minor increase in fuel cost. There's a reason why people stall for Tigers against USF.

It's been said so many times before but I guess I'll add to the chorus. Reducing the Jackson's damage to 160 would free up enough stat allocation to increase it's pen and RoF with maybe even a little left over to improve it's acceleration. The result would be a more mobile Jackson that is capable of reliably penetrating heavy tanks but with less front loaded damage. It would do consistent damage but not alpha strike so hard that medium armor has difficulty vs it even when properly flanking. The only issue I can see that might arise from this change would be blitz being too strong vs Jacksons but honestly that is more an issue with blitz being too strong period.

Increasing ROF would mean nothing if the shots keep bouncing off. No, USF players are pissed because they don't have Pershing tank while all other factions have a heavy tank, so we have to rely on Jacksons as only viable way to counter heavies.

The Pershing would be garbage for countering what you want it to counter, but I see your point. A I don't think you understand how penetration works, damage means nothing if you cannot penetrate, but firing more shots in a set amount of time gives you more chances to penetrate an enemy tanks armor.

For example, say I added weight to a coins side and flipped it every 30 minutes, if the coin landed on the side that didn't have the added weight I got 10 bucks, so basically in a long period of time if fortune just happens to smile upon me I get 10 bucks. Or, I add weight to a side of a coin and flip it every 10 minutes and every time I get the side with out the added weight I get 5 bucks.

You would get money quicker the second way, as while you would get less money each time you won, you still have far more chances to win then the first way in a set amount of time.

Let's say in that case Jagpanthers are for skilled players. A kind of unit you can only see his strenghness while you are yourself good enough.
it's a bit the same for the Jackson in fact. But as USF you must build it and use it, there are no super easy unit that can cover the edge of your skill

The Jadgpanzer isn't for "skilled" players, there are maps and situations were it's better than a Panther (like if your Schwer got destoryed and you need to kill some allied mediums), but most of the time for players of all skill levels the Panther is a better investment. The Jackson has far more damage potential and can snipe enemy tanks far easier with it's excellent combination mobility, range, and damage. You don't need to be ultra skilled to use a Jackson, just tell it to reverse when you see enemy infantry.

If you dont destroy 260 Fuel worth of Shermans they will do the same as a KT. Not sure what your getting at. Heavies make Mediums not viable. Similar to how the Jackson makes Ostheers T3 not AS viable or desirable considering they have a heavy option.

The Jackson comparison stands on the AT level. Why would you bother to go Medium if you knew it was voluntarily putting yourself on the backfoot? I sure as hell wouldnt. Give me a Tiger clone as the USF that I can stall for! I would pick it 9/10 times.

Cost is what makes mediums nonviable (That or they don't exist) for Axis. Allies have a multitude of very viable medium tanks that heavy armor doesn't invalidate.

I think think the increased sight is actually a good idea because it actually fits the American Tank Destroyer theme. US Tank Destroyers had open tops because it allowed all 3 members of the turret crew to search for targets in all directions, rather than just the commander. Closed top vehicles, like most tanks, allowed only the commander to have a wide range of sight, via tiny vision slits around the copula. Other crew members were restricted to the gun sights for the gunner and vision ports for the loader although these didn't exist on all tanks and thus the loader was completely blind to the world outside.

Yet every variant of the Panther has options to increase its sight range; Vetted Panther, Commander Panther (Elite Armoured), Command Panther(Special Operations), Scoped Panther (German Mechanized, Jaeger Armor). And on M10 level is the Puma, who's eagle-eyed crew commander also gets the advantage of sight vs the apparently near-sighted turret crew. Imo it's just yet another real-life advantage that US are lacking in-game that makes fighting uphill against heavy armour even more difficult. Particularly ironic that Panthers do get that advantage in multiple forms.

Cost is what makes mediums nonviable (That or they don't exist) for Axis. Allies have a multitude of very viable medium tanks that heavy armor doesn't invalidate.

Axis has a ton of more viable Mediums that they dont use because Jackson and IS2. You seem to think Allied Teching is cheap. Its not. The first Sherman costs more than the first Tiger.

I was saying the same thing. Ostheer has a doctrinal vision upgrade - the scope. Maybe Jackson should get one as well

The Pershing would be garbage for countering what you want it to counter, but I see your point. A I don't think you understand how penetration works, damage means nothing if you cannot penetrate, but firing more shots in a set amount of time gives you more chances to penetrate an enemy tanks armor.

For example, say I added weight to a coins side and flipped it every 30 minutes, if the coin landed on the side that didn't have the added weight I got 10 bucks, so basically in a long period of time if fortune just happens to smile upon me I get 10 bucks. Or, I add weight to a side of a coin and flip it every 10 minutes and every time I get the side with out the added weight I get 5 bucks.

You would get money quicker the second way, as while you would get less money each time you won, you still have far more chances to win then the first way in a set amount of time.



The Jadgpanzer isn't for "skilled" players, there are maps and situations were it's better than a Panther (like if your Schwer got destoryed and you need to kill some allied mediums), but most of the time for players of all skill levels the Panther is a better investment. The Jackson has far more damage potential and can snipe enemy tanks far easier with it's excellent combination mobility, range, and damage. You don't need to be ultra skilled to use a Jackson, just tell it to reverse when you see enemy infantry.



Cost is what makes mediums nonviable (That or they don't exist) for Axis. Allies have a multitude of very viable medium tanks that heavy armor doesn't invalidate.

I dont think you understand the pain of kiting and fighting Axis armor since you are the only using Axis tanks. I would rather pray to RNG Gods and do significant amount of damage in my first hit than take 2- 3 shots to do the same, not mention if I flank I want to do maximum damage or in your case let Panther survive bc my damage was nerfed. Also, keep in mind I have to damage Panther quick before his ShrekOber blobs arrive, its all about what you can achieve in minimum amount of time.

Only noobs think this OP bullshit sucks.

TD having spotters themselves is the most insulting bullshit to competitive RTS.

I think think the increased sight is actually a good idea because it actually fits the American Tank Destroyer theme. US Tank Destroyers had open tops because it allowed all 3 members of the turret crew to search for targets in all directions, rather than just the commander. Closed top vehicles, like most tanks, allowed only the commander to have a wide range of sight, via tiny vision slits around the copula. Other crew members were restricted to the gun sights for the gunner and vision ports for the loader although these didn't exist on all tanks and thus the loader was completely blind to the world outside.

Yet every variant of the Panther has options to increase its sight range; Vetted Panther, Commander Panther (Elite Armoured), Command Panther(Special Operations), Scoped Panther (German Mechanized, Jaeger Armor). And on M10 level is the Puma, who's eagle-eyed crew commander also gets the advantage of sight vs the apparently near-sighted turret crew. Imo it's just yet another real-life advantage that US are lacking in-game that makes fighting uphill against heavy armour even more difficult. Particularly ironic that Panthers do get that advantage in multiple forms.

+1, but if you wanted to go authentic it would also mean that open top TD's can easily be killed by flame thrower weapons and enemy grenades

Axis has a ton of more viable Mediums that they dont use because Jackson and IS2. You seem to think Allied Teching is cheap. Its not. The first Sherman costs more than the first Tiger.

You cannot say "do not use" and "viable" in the same sentence, it's a paradox. The first Sherman costs more than the first Tiger, but when you pay that 80 fuel for the Major tier your getting access to more than Sherman. Ostheer teching is current the most expensive in the game, for what you actually get from it.

I dont think you understand the pain of kiting and fighting Axis armor since you are the only using Axis tanks. I would rather pray to RNG Gods and do significant amount of damage in my first hit than take 2- 3 shots to do the same, not mention if I flank I want to do maximum damage or in your case let Panther survive bc my damage was nerfed. Also, keep in mind I have to damage Panther quick before his ShrekOber blobs arrive, its all about what you can achieve in minimum amount of time.

I understand what it's like to fight Axis armor, since only just the other day I made an OKW player my bitch when his Panther hit my M20 mine and then died to a AT gun. Then on top of that Iv killed my fair share of Panthers using ZiS guns, KV1's, SU-85s, It's fun watching a Panther shit it's pants and run away when it realizes that It can't do shit to an AT gun wall.

I don't get how the ideas of "I want to do a fuckload of damage in 1 shot" and "Please nerf Shreks they do to much damage" can coexist in your mind. And if you flank that Panther your going to actually kill it since you will have a chance to reload and fire before having to pull back, instead of having to pray to RNG gods.

TD having spotters themselves is the most insulting bullshit to competitive RTS.

Elefant with scope and "Focused Vision" ability.

Elefant with scope and "Focused Vision" ability.

I didn't defend this, Elefant, SU85, Zis, 57mm, are all like that, nubs friendly.

Elefant with scope and "Focused Vision" ability.

The Jackson only has 100 less damage, and 10 less range with far better reload and maneuverability. A Jackson that could spot for itself would be a million times more terrifying than a Elefant.

The elefant can sight for itself because it takes an immense amount of time for it to reload and reposition making it easy for a allied medium to escape. The elefant exists to support a defensive line, not to roam the map killing enemy tanks.

The Jackson only has 100 less damage, and 10 less range with far better reload and maneuverability. A Jackson that could spot for itself would be a million times more terrifying than a Elefant.

Yeah, it would require axis players to start flanking and using brains

Yeah, it would require axis players to start flanking and using brains

All this talk of flank this and flank that. Not every map allows for the perfect flank and it takes and IQ of 6 to slap an AT gun on a flank route and lock it down.

Yeah, it would require axis players to start flanking and using brains

Flank a speedy, turreted TD, Sir, you high?

Yeah, it would require axis players to start flanking and using brains

Quite the opposite actually, as this self sighting Jackson could easily avoid enemy tanks due to being able to see as far as it can shoot. A elefant can be easily killed by a single medium tank even if it sees it can gets the first shot off because the elefant is slow and is a support tank.

The Jackson is the opposite of a traditional TD, it's highly mobile allowing it to keep up with an infantry push while also being able to easily escape from enemy armor. Due to it's turret if you keep a tank at max range you can kill it with out ever taking damage, flanking an elefant is easy due to it's limited cone of fire.