American Re-Balance

Iam going to list two sections. The first are Minor changes. Some things that the Americans need badly. The second are things I think they need that they actually may not.

lieutenant
M2HB .50 cal mg
M1 57mm At gun
M20 scout car.

Captain
Stuart tank
M15 flack Track
75mm pack howitzer

Rear echelons:
Hull Down vet 2
Frag grenade up-grade

Sherman m4A3:
Upgrades:
-76mm gun. Ap rounds ability sames as 57 mm. Loses effectiveness of he round.
-Jumbo upgrade. 75 fuel.

Vetting:
vet1.
-Armor plates. On each side and in front of driver and gunner hatches. General armor increase.
vet2.
-Sandbags, wood logs. armor increase against HEAT rounds. Hand held at weapons.
-White Phosphorous shell. Good for building. Has a two percent chance to burn out tank crews when hit.
vet 3.
-Top mount .30 cal over gunner hatch, directional. This is in addition to the .50 you can up grade.
-Hedgerow cutters. Acts as though it is a heavy tank when encountering heavy foliage and tank traps.


Here is the second section of less viable options.

lieutenant:
Add m5A5 half tack. Americans where kings of the half tracks. They should be so in game.
Up grades:
-Smoke Dis-charger. 60 muni.
-.50 cal ring. 360 degrees of fire.40 muni.

It should be able to carry the heavy weapons teams .50 cal/pack howitzer. The 50 fires out the back like a reverse kubel. Letting it fire on the move, but not suppressing until stationary. The Pack fires like a mortar, Any time it likes. The cost of putting the pack in that thing, making it a at target is the trade off. You can lose the two to a few at rounds.

Captain:
Add M18 Hell cat. Fast like the puma. Better gun but less armor.
- I read somewhere that at one point the hell cat got up-armored to about what the M10 sits at. This should be a debatable late game upgrade.

Major:
Ability's.
Vet 2
-Transference to manpower. Cost 50 muni for 200 manpower. Debatable numbers.
Vet 3
-Transference to manpower. Cost 50 Fuel for 200 man power. Debatable numbers.

Add Sargent. 5 man squad. 1 Thompson. 4 m1's. cost 400 manpower.
Ability's.
-Flare
-Frag
-Four weapon slots
Upgrades:
-Springfield sniper rifle.
Ability's gained:
-snipe ability. only the sniper fires. The ranges on this should not be extreme.
-Hold fire. Loses the ability to move but gains camo.
-spotting ability. Loses the ability to move and fire for increased sight.
-Springfield takes up all weapon slots.

M20
Ability's:
-Flare
-Med bags
-Rocket up. stops using the .50 uses the rocket in it place.
-Detection. Iam sorry but if you force USF to build a vehicle to lay mines That unit better be able to detect them. I don't care if its a upgrade or an ability.

Secret Part Three. Iam not so sure about this but...

When all officers are purchased and alive The unit cap cost for vehicles should go down 25% I understand this may be a bit much, but it will help the late game for USF. And Thats why you are on this thread in the first place.

American artillery: Shorten the time between Activation and execution.

Won't happen. It would be way too easy to punish a OKW player who went health truck in Lieutenant tier. You designed that Lieutenant tier for forward heath truck assassination.

Mech truck would have problems too.


I would never get Captain under this arrangement.


Sherman upgraded to Jumbo? So it gets a caste iron hull in the field? lol

if at guns and m20 would be in lt tier....captain never seen again

Won't happen. It would be way too easy to punish a OKW player who went health truck in Lieutenant tier. You designed that Lieutenant tier for forward heath truck assassination.

Mech truck would have problems too.


I would never get Captain under this arrangement.


Sherman upgraded to Jumbo? So it gets a caste iron hull in the field? lol

I don't think that moving the AT gun to the Lt to would be an issue, the other 3 factions get their AT gun early, and the captain would be more viable assuming the Stuart got a small buff so it could do its job properly.

As far as being a truck killer the soviets already have AT guns in their first tier along with a machine gun so that says to me that it wouldn't be an issue against the OKW, Okw also get AT from their base truck which can deal with the m20 quite well.

I don't think that moving the AT gun to the Lt to would be an issue, the other 3 factions get their AT gun early, and the captain would be more viable assuming the Stuart got a small buff so it could do its job properly.

As far as being a truck killer the soviets already have AT guns in their first tier along with a machine gun so that says to me that it wouldn't be an issue against the OKW, Okw also get AT from their base truck which can deal with the m20 quite well.

The thing is the Lieutenant has great anti-infantry capabilities and the Captain has anti-vehicle capabilities.

Same for Soviets. Support building counters vehicles whereas Rifle building has absolutely no anti-vehicle. In each case a choice is made whether you want better anti-infantry or better anti-vehicle. Depending on what tier OKW goes for one choice is better than the other. This thread suggests removing that mechanic entirely which is bad.

OKW getting their AT gun early isn't saying much since it sucks bad. and an M20 should never be dueling with a flak truck.

Stuart needs a dozen buffs but I doubt they will ever happen.

I think one of the main things that USF needs is non-doctrinal mines that don't suck.

The Fury References are REAL in your sherman suggestions. Lol

These changes make sense,but why do this when you can have this Unique innovative top of the line tech system we have now!

M10 armour as an upgrade, don't make me laugh

Abilities galore + super duper shermans (hybrid of every model and modification)

Lol.

I support a lategame upgrade for shermans .
More pen less dmg for jackson.More pen for AT gun.
Smoke gren upgrade moved to after first officer.Give them mortar at t1.
Light AI mines for rear echelon with vet 1.
Price decrease or more pen for bazooka.
Slightly better stuart.
Add doctrinal rangers.
First officer not free.Have to buy,next ones normal.
Para reinforce cost increase by 4.
Greyhound less squadwipe.

The only things I agree with is:

lieutenant
M2HB .50 cal mg
M1 57mm At gun
M20 scout car.

Captain
Stuart tank
M15 flack Track
75mm pack howitzer

I really would like to see the AT gun built sooner even if this would mean an increase of lieutenant cost.

Maybe Jumbo upgrade for a Vet 3 Sherman, but it disables decrew ability (so a Vet 3 crew can't just hop around upgrading all the Shermans)

The Fury References are REAL in your sherman suggestions. Lol

These changes make sense,but why do this when you can have this Unique innovative top of the line tech system we have now!

No doubt cookies. I just recently watched that sucker. Made me wanna play some heros quick.

Won't happen. It would be way too easy to punish a OKW player who went health truck in Lieutenant tier. You designed that Lieutenant tier for forward heath truck assassination.

Mech truck would have problems too.


I would never get Captain under this arrangement.


Sherman upgraded to Jumbo? So it gets a caste iron hull in the field? lol

Dont be so short sighted. Take a look at what the OKW gets , and what the USF gets. In each tier. In every tear. What does each unit counter best.

Suggesting that ability be done next to the base is something i agree with. Suggest it maby.

The Stuart should have an up gradable .50 cal.

Bob Lo, you are suggesting the Americans need to react to something the OKW chooses. Interesting. Maby it would better if this field was a bit more even.

Maby units like the hell cat and the m5a5 half track be in tier zero. and be unlocked when both captain and lieutenant are both purchased. Personally, i think the scott tank should be right there.

One more thing. M5A5 should have the ability to upgrade to a 75 mm gun platform. serving as both a at gun and artillery. IMO a one round barrage would be too much. 120 muni might be a bit low for it, but considering the process it could be legit. plus hull down that shit. Real cool. And needed.

I think you've got these suggestion with "How to defeat OKW with USF" in mind, nut just simply "designing" a flexible faction. Your changes are mostly in favor of finishing they game as soon as possible.

IMO, USF is totally fine except their late game AT and a few minor adjustments. They are even OP early/mid game specially VS Ostheer. But the thing is, right now because of the blobbing (OKW of course), you either have to focus on AI (Sherman rush, AAHT and M20) or AT (Jackson spam + Airborne doctrine). So a combined arms of a couple of rifles, a MG, a ATG a Sherman and a Jackson is not viable. Fix the blobbing and everything is fine.

On the other hand, even with the best penetration and everything, a Schrecked blob can and will devour you precious Jumbos and Hell cats, so even with these changes it's gonna be hard for USF late game.

PS: I don't discourage you to discuss, but you know that these changes are not gonna happen in CoH2 right? Maybe in CoH3.

"Dont be so short sighted. Take a look at what the OKW gets , and what the USF gets. In each tier. In every tear. What does each unit counter best."

You said nothing I can respond to here. I'm not going to guess at what you are thinking, you can tell me what you are thinking if you wish.

"The Stuart should have an up gradable .50 cal." It would still suck. A stug does way more and costs roughly the same.


"Bob Lo, you are suggesting the Americans need to react to something the OKW chooses. Interesting. Maby it would better if this field was a bit more even."

If USF chooses the right strategy for the job OKW suffers greatly that is the thing. A quick US flak track against a forward health truck can shut that thing down fairly easily especially since OKW is wasting the 300 mp on retreat at that point.

If OKW goes mech truck and USF gets a captain and an AT gun out fast then the flak truck is useless and USF's superior infantry will chew up OKW infantry that isn't getting healed.

Your leuitenant suggestion hurts OKW too much since health truck would be a big no and a mech truck would have an at gun to avoid for early vehicle play.

The only things I agree with is:

lieutenant
M2HB .50 cal mg
M1 57mm At gun
M20 scout car.

Captain
Stuart tank
M15 flack Track
75mm pack howitzer

I really would like to see the AT gun built sooner even if this would mean an increase of lieutenant cost.

except this would make the captain an incredibly risky decision (and it already is pretty risky) Everything the captain tier would give you is the mid game vehicles that typically dont live that long.

Considering all of the things i suggested, and considering all the complaints. I guess iam a lucky man.

I like to remember that we are fighting for a faction we love. In a game we share. I understand that Iam trying to create a situation that may hurt some people in there place of joy. relaxation, and fun.

I brought my ideas to a bunch of strangers. To have them twiked to something realistic and acceptable to the community.

So yeah rimmlz. I probably have more invested in this internally than i should. But you're post script man. jeez. You have something factual you want to share with the class? Or are you just IMOing us. The rest of comment seems like is grounded in sound logic. But this hole thread is IMO.

Bob. You have a AT gun in you tier 0. some of the best early game At vehicles and late game vehicles in the two buildings you are talking about. You're talking about Americans picking the right building. Iam talking about OKW picking the right unit in what ever building you have chosen.


Ok. revision.

.50 cal tier 0. gets unlocked after you buy any officer.

75mm half track in the empty Lt slot.

Scott moved to captain.

75mm packed moved to Tier 0 unlocked after you purchase any two officers.

Sherman Jumbo 76mm moved to Tier 0 unlocked after you buy every officer.

If this was the teching what would you put in the open major slot?

So yeah rimmlz. I probably have more invested in this internally than i should. But you're post script man. jeez. You have something factual you want to share with the class? Or are you just IMOing us. The rest of comment seems like is grounded in sound logic. But this hole thread is IMO.

You're right, and that's because with each passing day, I become lazier and lazier. I've stated my opinion here and there (not that my opinion is something superior to yours of course) and since relic is taking their time, I just state "IMO" to save my time. But you're right, I have to be more clear.

First of all, I try to suggest things that I thing relic will at least consider. Let's be realistic, they are not gonna Redo a faction (very very unlikely, don't you think?). But we all know that the current state of balance is not only because of some OP/UP units, but because of broken game mechanics and game meta. So What do I -as an average player- think?

- Tweak suppression mechanics This will help USF to effectively punish OKW/Ostheer blobbers with M2HB
- Fix USF's Popcap issue. Right now, two Jacksons have more popcap than a panther, but are required to counter a panther most of the time. Officers are also obligatory popcap users. If you decide to bring both Lt and CPT in, you are gonna have problems later in the game.
- Increase USF's AT power against super heavies. Tweak jacksons in particular (Increase acceleration, increase Penetration and reduce damage)

By fixing the blob problem, particularly OKW's blobfest, thing are gonna change in a good way. As I said, USF has a lot of good potential and interesting units, but right now OKW players stall the game and go for super heavies. If you bring in AI units, you are gonna waste resource and popcan on them and will lose to Panthers/KT/JT. If you spam Jacksons, 5-6 Volks will kill them all with their first rocket volley and a lone Obersoldaten squad will frontally engage and kill your M2HB.

The thing is, there are a LOT of feasible suggestions for balance on this forum, and we try to suggest the simplest ways so Relic would at least consider them. Take a look at CoH2 Issue Tracker, there are a lot of good suggestions which are easily tweaked/implemented. Is Relic willing to consider them? Let's hope so.

Very true, and on point. And agreed. The more feasible the change the more likely relic will change it. I know this. I just get carried away. You know.

My god two folks on a forum who disagree finding common ground...Time to press for world peace? I do mean that though Bravo you two!

On the OP.

I dont think drastic changes are needed to USF. I have to agree with RMMLz here and think that Relic will entertain small changes but not huge ones. And I am a fan of the Jackson rebalance which has been discussed at length.

The effective Ober/Shrek blob in combination of heavy tanks are the hardest part for USF to deal with. It shuts them down and is easy to use and rewarding. Requiring much higher skill level to beat and longer time to get effective counters.

A good example is USF has a great blob counter in the Bulldozer Sherman. But using it is punishing because HEAVY TANKS will now make your life hell. (mainly the Panther) and since having a Single Jackson that bounces more then it Pens isnt much of a threat to it.

If this is solved the rest of USF would fall into place. I am really ok with the Teching as it stands except maybe the cost of Capt.