Remove Shreck from Volks

Today I rounded a corner with Stuart on Lanzerath. Big mistake.

You know that feeling when you go around a corner with a Luchs and are at range 30-35 from 3 Allied squads and all you can say is "ohshi--" before your tank dies?

No, you don't, because what are the 3 squads gonna do, shake their fists at your tank angrily?

Axis tanks do not have to live with this. This enables them to be a mobile reconnaisance force, among other things, yet another luxury Allied tanks don't really have.

The reliability and effective armor of the Tiger I at release was a bit of a shitfest, but it doesn't even touch how much of a death trap most American tanks are. The Pershing was basically rushed out of production due to the U.S. Army shitting it's pant because they had no heavy or "modern" tank while the Soviet were making IS2's and IS3's.

lol....

Pershing was under powered yes it was. you got that right but everything is pretty much wrong

1. The U.S. didnt produce and deploy pershings sooner because they didnt want to slow down the sherman production line(thats just one popular theory no one really knows the true reason)

2. Us and German Tank Doctrine was different in fact prior to the Landings that opened up the western front US commander and intel already knew about Tigers/Panther and even could have upgunned Shermans for long barreled 75MM/76MM guns but chose not too. Because in US doctrine the tank was infantry support weapon along with exploiting breakthroughs once they had been achieved not creating them.

German Tank Doctrine as the war progressed centered around Tanks being there driving force destroying enemy tanks and being a armored spearhead. US commander left tank hunting to Tank destroys like the M10,M18 and M36 so that shermans were free to mostly support infantry(towards the end of the war alot of infantry divisions had their own separate detachment of tanks) Of course the relaities of war meant shermans were often taking on German tanks, and even then Shermans faired better than myths would have you believe

Source: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/07/28/please-dont-use-the-5-m4s-1-panther-myth/ (source within a source)

Also none of that changes the fact most German Heavy armored vehicles had little overall impact due to there limited numbers further agitated by many being lost to fuel shortages and breakdowns.

Today I rounded a corner with Stuart on Lanzerath. Big mistake.

You know that feeling when you go around a corner with a Luchs and are at range 30-35 from 3 Allied squads and all you can say is "ohshi--" before your tank dies?

No, you don't, because what are the 3 squads gonna do, shake their fists at your tank angrily?

Axis tanks do not have to live with this. This enables them to be a mobile reconnaisance force, among other things, yet another luxury Allied tanks don't really have.

I think the question is why are your tanks moving unsupported, killing an unsupported tank really isn't hard.

lol....

Pershing was under powered yes it was. you got that right but everything is pretty much wrong

1. The U.S. didnt produce and deploy pershings sooner because they didnt want to slow down the sherman production line(thats just one popular theory no one really knows the true reason)

2. Us and German Tank Doctrine was different in fact prior to the Landings that opened up the western front US commander and intel already knew about Tigers/Panther and even could have upgunned Shermans for long barreled 75MM/76MM guns but chose not too. Because in US doctrine the tank was infantry support weapon along with exploiting breakthroughs once they had been achieved not creating them.

German Tank Doctrine as the war progressed centered around Tanks being there driving force destroying enemy tanks and being a armored spearhead. US commander left tank hunting to Tank destroys like the M10,M18 and M36 so that shermans were free to mostly support infantry(towards the end of the war alot of infantry divisions had their own separate detachment of tanks) Of course the relaities of war meant shermans were often taking on German tanks, and even then Shermans faired better than myths would have you believe

Source: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/07/28/please-dont-use-the-5-m4s-1-panther-myth/ (source within a source)

Also none of that changes the fact most German Heavy armored vehicles had little overall impact due to there limited numbers further agitated by many being lost to fuel shortages and breakdowns.

The reason the Pershing was not deployed sooner is because A. Extreme mechanical problems in the testing period of development resulting from using a vastly underpowered engine and B. The support a Pershing would need in the field was far, far larger than the support required for the M series of Tank Destroyers and the support required for the Sherman variants combined.

The Sherman was not up gunned for several reasons.

1. The Sherman was working wonders in the Pacific theater and the Pentagon saw little reason to create a new Sherman variant just to deal with German armor despite the obvious burden this would place on the European theater.

2. Lack of unified tactical vision, some wanted the Sherman series to simply be a support tank, and that attempting to up gun it would be pointless due to the power of the German's anti-armor weapons and that dedicated Tank Destroyers could fulfill the roll of taking on Axis armor.

3. Apathy, the success on the North African front and ongoing persecution of the Italian front made U.S. command believe that having a tank that could go toe to toe with German armor to be pointless when we easily outnumbered the German armor in every engagement we had.

4. Poor reaction to Intelligence, despite knowing that if Germany redeployed a large number of tanks from the Eastern Front to the Western we would be in deep shit Allied commander didn't believe Germany had the resources or will to pull off such a redeployment.

This and many other big fuck ups would result in the failure of Operation Market Garden and the initial success of the Germans in the battle of the bulge.

I think the question is why are your tanks moving unsupported, killing an unsupported tank really isn't hard.

That's precisely the point : it is hard. Just not with the faction you are advocating.

I think the question is why are your tanks moving unsupported, killing an unsupported tank really isn't hard.

Rly? Now compare Stuart to Luchs. Unsupported Stuart dies in a seconds vs okw.
Unsupported Luchs can sow terror. Even catching it with double AT guns wont stop it.

Jacksons are just too awesome, L2P for those Jacksons-sucks players.

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  Porygon Siu-King** [HK]

  Ginnungagap NikeR1

  Jacksons sux, they said

  by: Porygon map: Semoskiy

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So I ve watched this replay.

Really nice wipe at the bridge at the beggining. But later, you were little carried until IS2, and don't deny that cause there was a time when you had only 3 units in the middle of the game, but that's not the point.

Point is about Jackson.

I did not see anything what could say that Jackson is awesome.
4 Jackson - 13k dmg. Is it awesome? I had a games where my Jacksons did over 20k.
Suicide missions all the time, one step to far and Jackson is dead.
Little luck with first Tiger - 2 shots in rear and then penetration with 62% chances for that.
Running away from Jadgpanzer - normal thing.
Only 1 Jackon was able to get vet 2 and it was in the end because rest of them died before they could reach it.

Your IS2s did most part of the job + P47 - not Jackson.

So I ve watched this replay.

Really nice wipe at the bridge at the beggining. But later, you were little carried until IS2, and don't deny that cause there was a time when you had only 3 units in the middle of the game, but that's not the point.

Point is about Jackson.

I did not see anything what could say that Jackson is awesome.
4 Jackson - 13k dmg. Is it awesome? I had a games where my Jacksons did over 20k.
Suicide missions all the time, one step to far and Jackson is dead.
Little luck with first Tiger - 2 shots in rear and then penetration with 62% chances for that.
Running away from Jadgpanzer - normal thing.
Only 1 Jackon was able to get vet 2 and it was in the end because rest of them died before they could reach it.

Your IS2s did most part of the job + P47 - not Jackson.

This replay is NOT the IS2 one, I used Guard Motor.

Having very little units and more cache is my build for heavy call in, it doesn't make sense getting more unit for just feeding opponents CP, all I need is stalling until the CP ready and instant callin.
That's always my style, as Axis always hold a Siegfried line and only push after pushing Allies retreat, as Allies always do a strong piecing attack at early and then start stalling into late game.

The P47 is just forcing them back, IS2 for meat shield, not dealing much damage though, the main damage killing the catz is still the Jacks.

Running away from Jadgpanzer IV is just because I don't want a vet 3 IS2 feeding unnecessary vet, I can win if I chase, just NOT necessary.

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Pershing was just a shit tank, when they face Soviet T-34 85 at Korean war they finally realized that.

I didnt see the Jackson do much but some damage and alot of explosions. I did however see the P47 getting all the kills and the Captured Paks doing alot of work.

Another funny thing I saw was your SU85 Penetrate a Brummbar frontally while the Jackson just pulled a Jackson on it (Bounce)

I watched it pretty slowly and the ONLY tank a Jackson killed that I noticed on its lonesome was a P4 and in turn be destroyed by a Brummbar...

Seriously. Watch it again. It goes like this

Jackson shoots at big cat gets a Pen for 240 damage. Big cat backs off. P47 called in. Either kills Big cat or gets it down to almost no health.

Nowhere in there is the Jackson doing any serious work but making Ost think twice. In fact there was still plenty of Ostheer YOLO unsupported tank pushes all game long. No P47 and that would have been an allied loss for certain.

Can this thread die already...

Volks are designated anti tank infantry in later OKW games, no other unit can fulfill this role (no, not even sturms).

That's precisely the point : it is hard. Just not with the faction you are advocating.

USF can easily kill an unsupported Luch's, one you get an AT grenade on it it's dead.

Rly? Now compare Stuart to Luchs. Unsupported Stuart dies in a seconds vs okw.
Unsupported Luchs can sow terror. Even catching it with double AT guns wont stop it.

2 AT guns will take off almost all of it's health, meaning if it gets hit by 1 more shot it's dead. The Stuart is a garbage tank independent of the shrek being good.

I have a suggestion.
Since schrecked Volks farm XP like no tomorrow, I say lock them to vet 2 max. They can be countered with infantry now, yet they retain their current usefulness against tanks.

I have a suggestion.
Since schrecked Volks farm XP like no tomorrow, I say lock them to vet 2 max. They can be countered with infantry now, yet they retain their current usefulness against tanks.

Yes.

Let make the core infantry unit of a faction with the specific benefit of a 5 star veterancy system... only get 2 stars.

Sounds like a perfect solution to the problem mate, excellent input.

I dont think that the Schrecks are the problem. Its the ridiculous vet bonuses they get.

I dont think that the Schrecks are the problem. Its the ridiculous vet bonuses they get.

Those vet bonuses are really not that special. also getting to vet 5 takes quite a bit of work.

Those vet bonuses are really not that special. also getting to vet 5 takes quite a bit of work.

Those vet bonuses are really not that special. also getting to vet 5 takes quite a bit of work.

so 49% received accuracy bonus isnt special?

Those vet bonuses are really not that special. also getting to vet 5 takes quite a bit of work.

No, they are not.
Not at all.

Lets compare volks:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

vs rifles

-23% received accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy -50% ability recharge +25% grenade range

or grens/cons

+25% Range on Rifle-grenade +40% Accuracy
-23% received accuracy -20% Cooldown -25% Recharge on Panzerfaust

for the dessert, best scaling allied squad which is still a piece of shit due to weapons firing bad puns, guards:

-17% received accuracy +10% Penetration +30% Accuracy
+25% Button Duration -23% received accuracy -20% Cooldown


Nope, definitely nothing special at all, seems perfectly fine and balanced, because fuck logic, apparently these untrained, fresh conscripts and soldiers that just recovered were replaced on the fly with T-1000 terminator models, space marines or wraithbone constructs who don't give a flying fuck about incoming fire and self regenerate, while having on field, make shift bionic eyes for enhanced sight installed.

#balance

Those vet bonuses are really not that special. also getting to vet 5 takes quite a bit of work.

Yes allot of work with dem shreks yes yes yes, not only those shreks kill medium armor but they kill infantry models too. By this time, I think Volks are atleast Vet 2-3.

As the logic goes multiply zero with 100 and you still get a zero. Volks remain the worst baseline infantry in the game with no special abilities weapon upgrades and rather subpar damage. They actually need vet 4 and 5 to get on the level of other baseline infantry. Yeah they are meatshields but they are still going to lose any confrontation with vet 3 allied units. and at that point bullet fire is not nearly as important

So its not important period. What is important however and main reason of complaint of allied players who had to deal with the rather up ostheer is that the okw can much easier bounce back if he is caught with his pants down as he only needs to start upgrading his volks thus making medium armour spam significantly more difficult. volks are fine deal with it.

As the logic goes multiply zero with 100 and you still get a zero. Volks remain the worst baseline infantry in the game with no special abilities weapon upgrades and rather subpar damage. They actually need vet 4 and 5 to get on the level of other baseline infantry. Yeah they are meatshields but they are still going to lose any confrontation with vet 3 allied units. and at that point bullet fire is not nearly as important

So its not important period. What is important however and main reason of complaint of allied players who had to deal with the rather up ostheer is that the okw can much easier bounce back if he is caught with his pants down as he only needs to start upgrading his volks thus making medium armour spam significantly more difficult. volks are fine deal with it.

How can you defend cheap 235 MP mainline infantry at vet 4-5 to receive these buffs to fight my more expensive 280 MP Vet 3 rifles?

Volks

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy


Rifiles
-23% received accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy -50% ability recharge +25% grenade range