Remove Shreck from Volks
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20 Feb 2015, 09:30 AM
#481
8 
Posts: 2470
after 480 posts, what is the point of the thread?
20 Feb 2015, 09:39 AM
#482
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
after 480 posts, what is the point of the thread?
to wake relic up and inspire them to announce a proper balance patch
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
20 Feb 2015, 10:18 AM
#483
Posts: 1042
Throw in the ban hammer, please.
This kiddo is even worse than Quentin, trash talk 24/7 and dunno what is respect.
This one I agree, but it is very off topic from this thread.
I'm sure when we see something to respect, we'll respect it.
As for the rest of the thread, I don't know how you balance volks without throwing the whole of OKW out of alignment. Giving shreks to sturms just makes a dangerous early game unit into an equally dangerous late game unit and make Volks pretty meaningless.
On the other hand, Volks as they are are simply ridiculous.
I don't understand those saying that volks are bad everywhere however. They're extremely good at long range combat. They beat cons long range easily and against rifles I see them doing more damage to them as well.
I think however it would be better for the game if the OKW blob were nerfed into the ground rather than if it were left as it is. OKW as a faction currently, especially in team games, is simply imbalanced no matter how much you play with the stats.
The core is rotten.
20 Feb 2015, 10:49 AM
#484
Posts: 2779
I'm sure when we see something to respect, we'll respect it.
As for the rest of the thread, I don't know how you balance volks without throwing the whole of OKW out of alignment. Giving shreks to sturms just makes a dangerous early game unit into an equally dangerous late game unit and make Volks pretty meaningless.
On the other hand, Volks as they are are simply ridiculous.
I don't understand those saying that volks are bad everywhere however. They're extremely good at long range combat. They beat cons long range easily and against rifles I see them doing more damage to them as well.
I think however it would be better for the game if the OKW blob were nerfed into the ground rather than if it were left as it is. OKW as a faction currently, especially in team games, is simply imbalanced no matter how much you play with the stats.
The core is rotten.
Possibly you would see 3 Volks from 3 players joining a blob in large team game, making them stupidly strong, then more, more and more. Yeah I saw 4v4 there are at least 25 Volks crawling around, this is disgusting.
But if you play them in 1v1, you would know they are not that useful and you are forced to call in Jager / fusilier / Ober to help their useless Kar98 shooting.
20 Feb 2015, 10:51 AM
#485
Posts: 1130
Sorry forgot that Pak43 was also present therebuy mecha company possess a powerful offmap.
Bingo some doctrines counter other doctrines. Most noobie usf player use rifle and airborne company extensively not looking at the strenghts of other " lesser " companies. But these 2 doctrines have no good way of removing fortified positions making the okw fortification doctrine a real problem.
Similarly when i see counterattack doctrine i will not touch fortification doctrine with a 10 feet pole i take scavenger doctrine for the arty
horrida flamma bella
20 Feb 2015, 11:26 AM
#486
Posts: 1042
Possibly you would see 3 Volks from 3 players joining a blob in large team game, making them stupidly strong, then more, more and more. Yeah I saw 4v4 there are at least 25 Volks crawling around, this is disgusting.
Player colours makes it easy to tell whose volks are whose.
20 Feb 2015, 11:53 AM
#487
Posts: 2779
Player colours makes it easy to tell whose volks are whose.
Of course I know, but does that matters?
20 Feb 2015, 12:19 PM
#488
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Of course I know, but does that matters?Well when that combined Schreckblob instapwnbbqs your tanks, you will have the comfort that it at least took coordination of 2+ players to do it.
20 Feb 2015, 12:36 PM
#489
Posts: 209
Bingo some doctrines counter other doctrines. Most noobie usf player use rifle and airborne company extensively not looking at the strenghts of other " lesser " companies. But these 2 doctrines have no good way of removing fortified positions making the okw fortification doctrine a real problem.
Similarly when i see counterattack doctrine i will not touch fortification doctrine with a 10 feet pole i take scavenger doctrine for the arty
Yet My experience though me that only Mecha is viable, because of the Wc51 to counter weapon teams (but you got 2 maybe 3 minutes to do so, against OST even less, because one Panzerfaust and Wc51 is done) and the OFF map. Whenever i chose Paras for a little Band of Brothers action i have NO artilery what so ever(pak howi is not an Artillery it is a mortar).
20 Feb 2015, 12:48 PM
#490
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Bingo some doctrines counter other doctrines. Most noobie usf player use rifle and airborne company extensively not looking at the strenghts of other " lesser " companies. But these 2 doctrines have no good way of removing fortified positions making the okw fortification doctrine a real problem.
Similarly when i see counterattack doctrine i will not touch fortification doctrine with a 10 feet pole i take scavenger doctrine for the arty
But Pak43 is not a problem. Problem is non-doc KT.
Imagine doctrine with Tiger/Tiger Ace and Pak43. OP, right?
IS2+B4?
ISU+ML20?
_________
OKW is so boring to play... All you need is to make 3 types of units, 4 very rare. Volks, Obers, Panther/King Tiger. In fact you need nothing more.
You dont need AT gun, indircet fire, light vehicles, MGs... Yes, you can take them, but in fact you don't need them. Just combine Volks, Obers and Panther into 1 blob and crush everything on your way.
20 Feb 2015, 12:50 PM
#491
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Sorry forgot that Pak43 was also present there
Does it deal enough damage to actually DESTROY Pak-43?
20 Feb 2015, 14:28 PM
#492
Posts: 1130
Does it deal enough damage to actually DESTROY Pak-43?
easily even wipes out KT if you get a lucky spread.
horrida flamma bella
20 Feb 2015, 14:34 PM
#493
Posts: 1484
I am gonna agree with Australian here, VG just are too beefy after Vet 3. To level the playing field, Relic should completely erase this vet 5 bullshit.
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20 Feb 2015, 14:55 PM
#494
Posts: 1042
Does it deal enough damage to actually DESTROY Pak-43?
Technically, it won't even kill the crew (though a light breeze will afterwards)
Or am I thinking of a different call-in?
20 Feb 2015, 15:02 PM
#495
Posts: 183
Actually, one of the most powerful thing that volksgrenadiers get are their passive healing at vet 3. The ability to keep a squad on the field without 3 of them being a cool breeze away from dying and NOT having to retreat to base is an incredible boon.
The 40% sight range and two 30% accuracy boosts aren't too shabby either. Being able to shoot at maximum weapon range and have a good chance to hit is a quality shared by very few, if any, units in the game.
What people don't realise about this is that having regen in the field on your core infantry saves you a ridiculous amount of manpower as well. All those men who as they move forward take fire from and defeat enemies, eventually get to the point where, as you say a cool breeze would knock them down and then you must retreat and reinforce. Now reinforcing allied squads usually is from only 1 or 2 guys left so that's say 20x4 (cons) or 28x3-4 (Rifles).
I think this is also a part of the explanation for why OKW float crazy manpower. Volks don't bleed like other squads as they vet up, with the combo of reduced incoming acc and regen they are far too durable on the field.
Tech pricing is another thing but I won't go into that.
I decide..... if you live or die!
20 Feb 2015, 15:09 PM
#496
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedQueenRatchet123, I've almost had enough of your trash.
....
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
20 Feb 2015, 16:09 PM
#497
8 Posts: 2470
light artillery will decrew and generally destroy weapons.
20 Feb 2015, 16:53 PM
#498
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
But Pak43 is not a problem. Problem is non-doc KT.
Imagine doctrine with Tiger/Tiger Ace and Pak43. OP, right?
IS2+B4?
ISU+ML20?
_________
OKW is so boring to play... All you need is to make 3 types of units, 4 very rare. Volks, Obers, Panther/King Tiger. In fact you need nothing more.
You dont need AT gun, indircet fire, light vehicles, MGs... Yes, you can take them, but in fact you don't need them. Just combine Volks, Obers and Panther into 1 blob and crush everything on your way.
This could be said for literally every faction in the game dude. The reason you never see many types of units from any faction is a little thing called "The meta". Unless you give OKW more viable options you are not going to see more.
People want OKW to have things like indirect fire, more selection in vehicles like actual medium tanks and what not so they have more options to play around with. Soviets are one of the most fun factions atm due to how many units and indirect units there are to play around with. Ostheer would be the same way if it wasn't trapped behind horribly expensive techining.
I think OKW is a shitload of fun personally, but that's only because I do odd and crazy things like use Sturmkittens.
20 Feb 2015, 17:09 PM
#499
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
This could be said for literally every faction in the game dude. The reason you never see many types of units from any faction is a little thing called "The meta". Unless you give OKW more viable options you are not going to see more.
People want OKW to have things like indirect fire, more selection in vehicles like actual medium tanks and what not so they have more options to play around with. Soviets are one of the most fun factions atm due to how many units and indirect units there are to play around with. Ostheer would be the same way if it wasn't trapped behind horribly expensive techining.
I think OKW is a shitload of fun personally, but that's only because I do odd and crazy things like use Sturmkittens.
About every faction?
SU: Cons, Shocks, Guards, Penals, Sniper, Maxim, ZiS, T70, T34, SU85, Katy, IS2, 120mm.
OST: Grens, PzGrens, MG, Mortar, Pak40, PzIV, Tiger, 222, 221.
USF: Rifles, Lt+M20/AA or Cpt+57mm+Stuart, Shermans, Jacksons, M8, Paras.
We see those units all the time. One time it will be Sherman spam, other it will by Jackson+M8.
OKW:
Volks, Obers, Luchs, Panther, King Tiger. Most seen OKW units. All 251, leig, Panzerfusi, Falsch, Jaeger, Puma, Strumtiger, raketen. You dont see this units often.
Yes, sometime, someone will try to go for Falsch+Jadgpanzer but then he will realise than Obers+Panther are just better.
It's just shitty design of the faction.
SU or USF you must decide if you want little support (T1, Lt) or heavy one. This must be combined with your doctrine, like snipers+guards.
OKW can give a garden about that. No matter what will enemy do, Volks+Obers+Panther can stand against everything.
20 Feb 2015, 17:17 PM
#500
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
About every faction?
SU: Cons, Shocks, Guards, Penals, Sniper, Maxim, ZiS, T70, T34, SU85, Katy, IS2, 120mm.
OST: Grens, PzGrens, MG, Mortar, Pak40, PzIV, Tiger, 222, 221.
USF: Rifles, Lt+M20/AA or Cpt+57mm+Stuart, Shermans, Jacksons, M8, Paras.
We see those units all the time. One time it will be Sherman spam, other it will by Jackson+M8.
OKW:
Volks, Obers, Luchs, Panther, King Tiger. Most seen OKW units. All 251, leig, Panzerfusi, Falsch, Jaeger, Puma, Strumtiger, raketen. You dont see this units often.
Yes, sometime, someone will try to go for Falsch+Jadgpanzer but then he will realise than Obers+Panther are just better.
It's just shitty design of the faction.
SU or USF you must decide if you want little support (T1, Lt) or heavy one. This must be combined with your doctrine, like snipers+guards.
OKW can give a garden about that. No matter what will enemy do, Volks+Obers+Panther can stand against everything.
Dude you are agreeing with me, nobody likes the fact that OKW has very little viable builds due to the weird pricing combined with the reduced fuel income and the distribution. The reason I like to do odd builds using the Jadgpanzer, or Sturmtiger is that it's fun for me, but that means I'm going out of my way, were as with Soviets I have a pretty big wealth of options that work. The fact OKW has this basic build that deals with everything is bad, but still a Panther ain't going to get you far at all against a blobs, that's were the sturmtiger comes in
Ostheer is even WORSE however, but this thread isn't about them.
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