Remove Shreck from Volks

Its more of an issue their are no p4's for them to take on. zooks are worthwhile if the enemy uses large amount of medium armour but the entire wher meta either revolves around vehicles and heavy tanks.

Therefore, Rifles with Zooks can't level up since they don't have targets to constantly shoot at and deal damage to.
Just like saying PTRS are not as bad, if there was only light vehicles/Stugs in play.

For their actual performance, zooks shouldn't require tech at least.

Instead of removing the shrek option for volks, why not instead limit the amount of shreks one can upgrade, meaning, having a set rule for 3-4 shreks to be on the battlefield at any time per player.

And it's not like every player has 3-4 shrecks on the battlefield at any time

And it's not like every player has 3-4 shrecks on the battlefield at any time

I've seen people go 5-7 on a regular basis.

Are you joking? Even if would have to choose between Schreck or Bazooka, i'd take the Schreck. Tell me, why on earth is the Bazooka worse than the Schreck. Why cant it cost 90 muni too. Asymmetrical balance? Wow. Lol.

And btw, Schrecks do reasonably well vs Soviet armour. My experience atleast.

I would not give a damn if the price of the zooka was raised and mirrored to the shrek. It will not fix your complaint however. the same zooka is still going to be struggling against the heavy okw armour.

Therefore, Rifles with Zooks can't level up since they don't have targets to constantly shoot at and deal damage to.
Just like saying PTRS are not as bad, if there was only light vehicles/Stugs in play.

For their actual performance, zooks shouldn't require tech at least.



And it's not like every player has 3-4 shrecks on the battlefield at any time

i would not mind if the zooka become free mate. its free after all for the okw and if blow ammo on this it means less ammo for bars/lmg's

Food for thought:

Cold package >> even less micro on blizzard maps. I guess this somehow justify it's cost.
Upgrades on enemy or disconnected territory.

Food for thought:

Cold package >> even less micro on blizzard maps. I guess this somehow justify it's cost.
Upgrades on enemy or disconnected territory.

With the amount of MP float OKW has and the fact Volks can construct fires means that with out the Shrek charging 90 muni for cold protection is pretty silly.

for the record shreks do not fare well against the heavy soviet armor either. both weapons are meant against medium armour 2 factions huse medium armour their fore shrek works.

so stop crying imbalance

"HEY GAIZ!
OUT OF ALLZ ALLIEZ ARMOR OF 2 ARMIZ ONE TANK IS VIABLE VS SHREKZ!

STOP CRIEZ IMBLNZ! U HAZ SINGLE TONK FOR 2 ARMIZ VALID VS SHRCKZ!"

Thats literally how you sound right now.

With the amount of MP float OKW has and the fact Volks can construct fires means that with out the Shrek charging 90 muni for cold protection is pretty silly.

It's not about the value of having cold protection, rather than it just relief even more the micro tax for the faction.

Price is basically a cost/opportunity/timing relation.

It's not about the value of having cold protection, rather than it just relief even more the micro tax for the faction.

Price is basically a cost/opportunity/timing relation.

Early game OKW really don't have barely any munitions at all, which is the reason you normally see bad players spamming grenades while good ones have 3 grim reaper tool bulletins and they just save a pray they get the first shrek out before scout cars come and you don't miss. You will also normally never see people convert munitions to fuel early game outside of team games due to needing as much munitions income as you can get.

The funniest thing about the insane amount of munitions float late game is that when I get all the armor I want to out onto the field I just start converting to munitions then and call in a 700-800 munition 105 howitzer barrage on the enemy base and end the game

I would not give a damn if the price of the zooka was raised and mirrored to the shrek. It will not fix your complaint however. the same zooka is still going to be struggling against the heavy okw armour.

Funny. When I capture Shreks or Raks with my Riflemen all of a Sudden the Panther (Heavy) isnt a threat anymore. It has to run away with its tail in between its legs and engine damage can actually mean its doom not just a slightly longer repair time....

If Zooks were as good as Shreks even with Axis having higher armor values on average it would be a HUGE boon to USF AT.

But I wouldnt want them to be 100% the same. I just want them to be good in their own right. Keep the crap pen for all I care and double the ROF. Or reduce shreks to near Point blank and make the Zook a long range AT weapon.

Either way right now just having the Zook worse in every possible and practical way then the Shreks isnt the answer. Its a Rifleman nerf in 1v1 in its current state.

Funny. When I capture Shreks or Raks with my Riflemen all of a Sudden the Panther (Heavy) isnt a threat anymore. It has to run away with its tail in between its legs and engine damage can actually mean its doom not just a slightly longer repair time....

If Zooks were as good as Shreks even with Axis having higher armor values on average it would be a HUGE boon to USF AT.

But I wouldnt want them to be 100% the same. I just want them to be good in their own right. Keep the crap pen for all I care and double the ROF. Or reduce shreks to near Point blank and make the Zook a long range AT weapon.

Either way right now just having the Zook worse in every possible and practical way then the Shreks isnt the answer. Its a Rifleman nerf in 1v1 in its current state.

I had a game last week where AT nade from 2 Rifiles and capture shreks destroyed a Panther. Shreks most def need to be in line with Zooks or vice versa. Personally, I would rather have Zooks to be even better than shreks on bases of teching for it and spending fuel on TOP of muni.

It would make a lot more sense instead of buffing Zook's just reduce their cost drastically, since your trading out one of the best rifles in the game for AT. But regardless a zook blob can still put out a massive amount of DPS and it's one of the reasons you never see Ostheer t3 any more.

I would be happy with a reduction in the amount of damage shreks did but an increase in their ROF, as they are great for one big volley of damage from your volks, but the reload time makes them kinda eh in extended battles compared to dedicated AT guns/tanks.

I had a game last week where AT nade from 2 Rifiles and capture shreks destroyed a Panther. Shreks most def need to be in line with Zooks or vice versa. Personally, I would rather have Zooks to be even better than shreks on bases of teching for it and spending fuel on TOP of muni.

Zooks are only 55 munitions, I agree you shouldn't have to tech for them separately, they should just come in a package with the BAR tech. However; at a lower cost and them being available to basically any USF unit they are a lot less restricted as Shreks are. If you want to make Shreks and Zook's the same might as well let OKW just give a shrek to anyone who wants it.

It would make a lot more sense instead of buffing Zook's just reduce their cost drastically, since your trading out one of the best rifles in the game for AT. But regardless a zook blob can still put out a massive amount of DPS and it's one of the reasons you never see Ostheer t3 any more.

I would be happy with a reduction in the amount of damage shreks did but an increase in their ROF, as they are great for one big volley of damage from your volks, but the reload time makes them kinda eh in extended battles compared to dedicated AT guns/tanks.

These dont exist in 1v1. Show me a Zook blob and ill show you a US loss as they gave up their AI for weak weak weak AT.

Right now the ROF bonus of Zooks over Shreks still doesnt make for higher DPS since their damage per shot is less. They are literally worse in every regard. There are no platform for them as good as Volks when it comes to bonus accuracy through veterancy, They weaken the squad you put them on unless its an RE who are useless in a combat roll anyway, They have less Pen and less damage.

So lets look at Vet 3 rifles carrying zooks vs Vet 5 Volks with Shreks

Volks level faster with shreks due to 100% Pen on all USF vehicles. Combine this with more damage and DPS overall. And a lower XP pool then rifles.

Volks become more accurate with their Shreks then rifles can because both have the SAME accuracy yet Volks get better accuracy then rifles with their quicker attained Vet.

Zooks cost Manpower and Fuel to unlock.

So EVEN if you made Zooks Pen better without addressing their terrible damage per shot they would STILL be inferior to Shreks. And thats not even getting into the lower average HPs per USF vs Axis tanks.

These dont exist in 1v1. Show me a Zook blob and ill show you a US loss as they gave up their AI for weak weak weak AT.

Right now the ROF bonus of Zooks over Shreks still doesnt make for higher DPS since their damage per shot is less. They are literally worse in every regard. There are no platform for them as good as Volks when it comes to bonus accuracy through veterancy, They weaken the squad you put them on unless its an RE who are useless in a combat roll anyway, They have less Pen and less damage.

So lets look at Vet 3 rifles carrying zooks vs Vet 5 Volks with Shreks

Volks level faster with shreks due to 100% Pen on all USF vehicles. Combine this with more damage and DPS overall. And a lower XP pool then rifles.

Volks become more accurate with their Shreks then rifles can because both have the SAME accuracy yet Volks get better accuracy then rifles with their quicker attained Vet.

Zooks cost Manpower and Fuel to unlock.

So EVEN if you made Zooks Pen better without addressing their terrible damage per shot they would STILL be inferior to Shreks. And thats not even getting into the lower average HPs per USF vs Axis tanks.

Which is why I said that the price of the Zook should be drastically reduced as it's currently not worth the cost, and said that Shreks should have lower damage but get a better rate of fire, that way you can't just 1 shot a Sherman but they will still remain useful in drawn out battles. If you want to put the Zook and the Shrek on equal levels then they should cost the same and both be available to any infantry unit who wants them.

The way Stormtroopers works is actually quite cool in my opinion, sure they suck as a unit but I think all units should have a selection when it comes to upgrades making you pick and choose, rather than having just 1 you always default to.

Meanwhile, Guards have shitty anti tank rifles...

Which is why I said that the price of the Zook should be drastically reduced as it's currently not worth the cost, and said that Shreks should have lower damage but get a better rate of fire, that way you can't just 1 shot a Sherman but they will still remain useful in drawn out battles. If you want to put the Zook and the Shrek on equal levels then they should cost the same and both be available to any infantry unit who wants them.

The way Stormtroopers works is actually quite cool in my opinion, sure they suck as a unit but I think all units should have a selection when it comes to upgrades making you pick and choose, rather than having just 1 you always default to.

No weapon racks are a core design of the USF. Shreks shouldnt be allowed on all platforms. Unless of course all of a sudden Zooks can teleport into the hands of any USF unit as well as BARs etc.

Lower damage is fine for shreks. But lower accuracy would be needed too if you want true balance. The platform that gets shreks is more durable to supporting AI infantry, cheaper, and more accurate.

Even if Zooks were say all of a sudden BETTER outright then Shreks by a small margin the impact would still be less considering the overall factions (Axis better armor/HPs on average and access to Heavy tanks etc etc)

Either way in the current game Shreks are too effective and Bazookas even if they were stupidly cheap I would never put them on Rifles.

Making the Cheaper wouldnt make them very useful. They would just be an upgrade to REs. Try to get two Zooks on a Rifle squad and try to take on a P4 or Ostwind and see what happens. They are only really useful against Panthers and Stugs. Light vehicles are too hard to hit without Volks level accuracy bonuses and the AI on Ostheer mediums and the retaliative weak DPS of Zooks makes Ostheer mediums deadly against a frontal Zook Charge.

There would be situational uses for them like killing something thats seriously damaged but they will never have the impact of what Shreks enjoy currently without a significant buff.

Edit: And when I say useful against Panthers I mean they can cause damage and give Rifles vet. Not that they would ever really destroy the Panther unless it was already down to almost no health or the player was brain dead.

No weapon racks are a core design of the USF. Shreks shouldnt be allowed on all platforms. Unless of course all of a sudden Zooks can teleport into the hands of any USF unit as well as BARs etc.

Lower damage is fine for shreks. But lower accuracy would be needed too if you want true balance. The platform that gets shreks is more durable to supporting AI infantry, cheaper, and more accurate.

Even if Zooks were say all of a sudden BETTER outright then Shreks by a small margin the impact would still be less considering the overall factions (Axis better armor/HPs on average and access to Heavy tanks etc etc)

Either way in the current game Shreks are too effective and Bazookas even if they were stupidly cheap I would never put them on Rifles.

Making the Cheaper wouldnt make them very useful. They would just be an upgrade to REs. Try to get two Zooks on a Rifle squad and try to take on a P4 or Ostwind and see what happens. They are only really useful against Panthers and Stugs. Light vehicles are too hard to hit without Volks level accuracy bonuses and the AI on Ostheer mediums and the retaliative weak DPS of Zooks makes Ostheer mediums deadly against a frontal Zook Charge.

There would be situational uses for them like killing something thats seriously damaged but they will never have the impact of what Shreks enjoy currently without a significant buff.

The long range accuracy of shreks has already been nerfed, and yeah 2 zooks against a P4 or a Ostwind isn't going to work, and 2 shreks against a T34 or a Sherman isn't going to work either!

Making them cheaper is just a solution to putting them more inline with their cost, but if you nerfed shreks down to the level of Zooks then it would make Soviets ridiculously good against OKW as the IS2 would basically be a unstoppable beast that you need a KT to kill, or a Panther and a godly amount of luck.

If Zooks were better than Shreks by a slight margin than Ostheer would basically become a support faction in it's entirety, since the Tiger has lower armor than a KV1.

Honestly dude the comparison of Zooks to Shreks is pretty simple, if you take away the tech cost one is a ~okay~ at support weapon that's cheap and plentiful, the other remains expensive and tied to a single unit.

Meanwhile, Guards have shitty anti tank rifles...

Yeah the PTRS should be a lot better than it currently is, Guards blow hard at the moment.

The long range accuracy of shreks has already been nerfed, and yeah 2 zooks against a P4 or a Ostwind isn't going to work, and 2 shreks against a T34 or a Sherman isn't going to work either!

Making them cheaper is just a solution to putting them more inline with their cost, but if you nerfed shreks down to the level of Zooks then it would make Soviets ridiculously good against OKW as the IS2 would basically be a unstoppable beast that you need a KT to kill, or a Panther and a godly amount of luck.

If Zooks were better than Shreks by a slight margin than Ostheer would basically become a support faction in it's entirety, since the Tiger has lower armor than a KV1.

Honestly dude the comparison of Zooks to Shreks is pretty simple, if you take away the tech cost one is a ~okay~ at support weapon that's cheap and plentiful, the other remains expensive and tied to a single unit.

Bazooka
Accuracy far:
0.025
Accuracy near:
0.05

Shrek
Accuracy far:
0.025
Accuracy near:
0.05

Both were nerfed on the same patch.

If Shreks were nerfed the IS2 would be HARD to deal with. Similar to how Axis heavies are HARD to deal with as USF. OKW could still build, KT, Jagd, Pak43, Rak even has very high Pen, Panther and the old Soviet stand by...mines.

Ost still has the Pak43 and Elephant and Pak40 all of which can deal better with an IS2 then their equivalent allied counterparts can deal with Panthers.