Quentin :"OKW is the weakest faction"

OKW, USF and Soviet balance is debatable but the margin between them is small as evidenced by the recent tournament results and maps play as much or even larger roles than faction imbalances in deciding victories often enough.

Ostheer however seems to be a good margin behind all 3 factions, they are the weakest faction by a clear margin.

unfortunately whats unfair in the case of 1v1s is overpowered in 3v3 4v4 and those game modes are still a part of coh2. Balancing the 1v1 gamemode usually results in an unbalanced 3v3/4v4 mode. I think OKW are good in all gamemodes but a bit overpowering in 3v3/4v4 due to obers and volks with shreks. Other than there vanilla AT pea shooters the OKW has very powerful units.

The Ostheer are certainly UP, IMO - but the USF are weakest. I make this observation from reviewing top level play -as evidenced in the recent Herr Dr Wachs tourney.

The first 10 minutes against the USF for an ostheer player is hell. Ostheer is my favourite faction and i always dread facing the USF in a 1v1. Biggest reason is because vanilla riflemen shred vanilla grens. It forces the ostheer play to group up and or use mgs and vet 1 rifles can just pop smoke on the mg and wipe it unless you retreat it. USF grabs all the territory, AA HT or M20 and the munitions hungry ostheer player just cant hang in there. Mech assault is the only hope.

AFAIK, the strongest army is, in fact, the Soviets (used properly, in the right hands).

I keep saying this for centuries. The text in brackets is not needed, because even USF can be a top army in the hands of a top player. Soviets are the strongest faction currently, period. The only one challanging it with success is currently OKW. Soviet having alot of fans on these forums => hundreds of threads about how OP is OKW and how much its units (most of them) need nerfs. Now I won't deny that some units need a touch but still I'm amused how pissed are soviet faction admirers when speaking about the only faction that can hold them back.

From my experience in battle and form reading this thread and other threads on coh2.org, I have come to the following conclusions:
Ostheer have the weakest opening in 1v1s. The ubiquity of a USF player's access to smoke negates the effectiveness of the MG42, thus leaving the Grens helpless manpower bleeders.
The fast M20 allows a USF player to solidify their map control and/or cut off an OST player's resources.
The Ostheer player relies on munitions early and mid game to defend against light vehicles.
The USF have no way of effectively dealing with hordes of heavy armor.
The Soviet call-in meta is extremely powerful.
No fuel or tech requirements for call-ins mean they can be procured relatively fast and easily replaced (in terms of fuel)
The way the infantry function for the Soviets reinforces the call-in meta; more CP experience is gained when squads/models are killed

CPs: I once played a 4v4 with some friends and, after annihilating blobs of infantry from all four players - with significant losses to our own forces, preventing us from exploiting their weak strength - The USF players had enough CPs for P47s. I had 8 CPs when the P47s came... they require 12 CPs. I don't think they could all build enough caches to get 12ish CPs when I and my allies had around 8.

I don't play as OKW very often, but, when fighting as them, I have noticed a huge surplus of manpower after 1-2 Sturmpios, 3-4 volks, and maybe one or two Fusiliers or Falls.
When fighting against OKW, Obersoldaten are deadly to anything. Volks with Shrecks covering for them make everything even more painful.

And I'd like other pro players to express their opinion on the subject, until then I'm going to treat this topic as a subjective opinion of a player.

But to be honest, i think that you don't know how take 80 % of the Map at first 10 min vs okw, before obers. + for have the same balance between 1vs1 and 3vs3 4vs4 2vs2, maps need to be bigger for these last mod.

Does it matter?
We've seen plenty of games where OKW was pushed only to base sector and still won.
OKW teching and vet allows them to come back out of anything if you don't loose squads.

If you take 80 % of the Map, Shermans finish okw to death ...

Does it matter?
We've seen plenty of games where OKW was pushed only to base sector and still won.
OKW teching and vet allows them to come back out of anything if you don't loose squads.

Completely wishful thinking, no offence. Both US or Sovs will simply come into your base and kill your stuff, even with your ridiculous Flak emplacements - thats what the Sherman is for.

Does it matter?
We've seen plenty of games where OKW was pushed only to base sector and still won.
OKW teching and vet allows them to come back out of anything if you don't loose squads.

Bullshit, one Scott or Sherman cannon wipe them all while stuck at retreat, such idiotic balance.

OKW is the weakest faction in some regards:

- Horrible to watch
- Boring to play
- Boring to play against
- Boring to discuss
- Have the tendency to get abusive (weak) players addicted

So I totally agree with op, Okw is the weakest faction. Weak is for the weak.

OKW is the weakest faction in some regards:

- Horrible to watch
- Boring to play
- Boring to play against
- Boring to discuss
- Have the tendency to get abusive (weak) players addicted

So I totally agree with op, Okw is the weakest faction. Weak is for the weak.

I (and some other people) keep saying that OKW is not weak, OP or UP. It's BROKEN. As you said, it's boring to play (not many strats) boring to counter and is abusive. So it's broken, OKW needs some changes instead of simple nerfs,buffs.

Does it matter?
We've seen plenty of games where OKW was pushed only to base sector and still won.
OKW teching and vet allows them to come back out of anything if you don't loose squads.

Correct, but what you seem to forget is the most important thing: If I am cornered with OKW in my base perimeter + 1 or 2 points near it at 10 minutes mark it's one thing, if I am cornered with the same faction in same conditions but at 25-30 minutes mark it's completely different. That is how "amazing OKW comebacks" took place.

okw the weakest faction quentin? is that why i beat you with them in 7 minutes on semoskiy winter when you were playing soviets?

okw have the best engies
okw have the best scaling starting infantry
okw have the best late game infantry
okw have the best "medium" tank
okw have the best tech buildings
okw have the best late game

the fact is you don't even need commanders with this faction (unique to them), and can build 2 different unit types and win quite easily. (obers and volks with shreks)

Okw is overperforming and is overpowered at the moment. Just because they're average pre-15 minutes doesn't mean they're the weakest faction

This a thousand percent

But you know, this thread is useless if everyone stay in his position and feelings. The thing is that i think that i understand you because i fought vs low ranks, so i know that you can't imagine to take 80 % of the map first 10 min and after win. And you don't understand, maybe because nobody made to you a good correction Kappa

But you know, this thread is useless if everyone stay in his position and feelings. The thing is that i think that i understand you because i fought vs low ranks, so i know that you can't imagine to take 80 % of the map first 10 min and after win. And you don't understand, maybe because nobody made to you a good correction Kappa

I can´t understand what you try to say.

I can't believe this thread is still up. As my good friend Quentin states above, this thread is useless.
Ease a bit on the glue sniffing eh Quentin