OKW extremly OP, when a new patch will be out?

OKW consistently has the highest winrate in 1v1 and 2v2. They are OP in 1v1: They are straight up broken in 2v2s.

Let's look at the ladder shall we? Compared to soviets, for the top10 (accurate 15-01-15, if I miscalculated please let me know):

1v1:
OKW - 2103W/443L - lose 1 out of every 5.7 games.
Soviets 5307/1742L- lose 1 out of every 4.0 games.

By comparison, US is at 1778/460 - 1L in 4.9 and Ostheer is obviously last although with a better than expected 1L in 3.8 (5035/1810)

2v2R:
OKW - 2250W/723L - lose 1 out of every 4.1 games.
Soviets - 2586W/1381L - lose 1 out of every 2.9 games.

And that's not even looking at the fact that soviets must face the (arguably) underpowered Ostheer.

Maybe it's because AT stats aren't counted? Nope, AT still says the same thing (I think it's fair to assume double ostheer is not an important factor in these winrates):

2v2 AT:
Axis - 1706W/239L - lose 1 out of every 8.1 games
Allies - 1658W/320L - lose 1 out of every 6.1 games

Top10 ladder not enough you say? I would disagree. As shown the sample size is easily large enough, but if you want tourney stats, here we go:

Show Spoiler
From Round 3 to 6 (round 2 has an incorrect calculation):
OKW total: 53W/44L - 1 in 2.2, 55% winrate, with an abysmal 9.1% winrate on Semois OKW still manages to get an above 50% winrate.

Then there's the constant 75% searching axis in 2v2 ladder.

Finally, some personal gripes:

Stuka - This thing is so fucking ridiculous. It kills any infantry it touches instantly. Only the B4 can compare, but the stuka is mobile so can never be killed. In 2v2s, this unit is massively overpowered.
Obers - Need I say more?
Vet5 - Why does this faction need vet5? Even historically this is stupid, why would troops stationed on the western front be more experienced than their counterparts on the eastern front when the most experienced ones there actually came from the fight with the soviet union. How does it make sense that a squad of volks comprised of old men and young boys can gain more experience than guard and grenadier squads that have been fighting the entire war? Of course the realism argument doesn't matter when it comes to balance, but it does when considering the faction design. It adds nothing to the game whatsoever, since gaining vet is so meaningless once you have a schreck. It only means that volks with schrecks get even better in the late game.
KT - Sure, it takes a lot to tech to. But why should this thing be completely unkillable by any AT gun and have such massive AoE it easily wipes 6-man squads in a single shot?
Schwerer Panzer T4 building - You know what, why don't we add a flak gun that completely nullifies anything not a tank in a massive radius that only long range AT can touch? Sounds good. And the worst thing is, it's only slightly more expensive fuel wise than soviet tech building that have no other function than unlock T3/T4 units.

Not to say the other factions don't have their own share of bullshit options, but OKW has by far the most and is easily the most forgiving and easiest to play faction in the game.

Top 10 is no indicator of anything, because the sample is way too small...

Schwerer Panzer T4 building - You know what, why don't we add a flak gun that completely nullifies anything not a heavy tank

ftfy

but I agree OKW are still bullshit. The definition of anti-fun.

Top 10 is no indicator of anything, because the sample is way too small...

The least amount of games is the AT stats at slightly less than 2k. That seems reasonable to me.

OKW consistently has the highest winrate in 1v1 and 2v2. They are OP in 1v1: They are straight up broken in 2v2s.

Let's look at the ladder shall we? Compared to soviets, for the top10 (accurate 15-01-15, if I miscalculated please let me know):

1v1:
OKW - 2103W/443L - lose 1 out of every 5.7 games.
Soviets 5307/1742L- lose 1 out of every 4.0 games.

By comparison, US is at 1778/460 - 1L in 4.9 and Ostheer is obviously last although with a better than expected 1L in 3.8 (5035/1810)

2v2R:
OKW - 2250W/723L - lose 1 out of every 4.1 games.
Soviets - 2586W/1381L - lose 1 out of every 2.9 games.

And that's not even looking at the fact that soviets must face the (arguably) underpowered Ostheer.

Maybe it's because AT stats aren't counted? Nope, AT still says the same thing (I think it's fair to assume double ostheer is not an important factor in these winrates):

2v2 AT:
Axis - 1706W/239L - lose 1 out of every 8.1 games
Allies - 1658W/320L - lose 1 out of every 6.1 games

Top10 ladder not enough you say? I would disagree. As shown the sample size is easily large enough, but if you want tourney stats, here we go:

Show Spoiler

From Round 3 to 6 (round 2 has an incorrect calculation):
OKW total: 53W/44L - 1 in 2.2, 55% winrate, with an abysmal 9.1% winrate on Semois OKW still manages to get an above 50% winrate.

Then there's the constant 75% searching axis in 2v2 ladder.

Finally, some personal gripes:

Stuka - This thing is so fucking ridiculous. It kills any infantry it touches instantly. Only the B4 can compare, but the stuka is mobile so can never be killed. In 2v2s, this unit is massively overpowered.
Obers - Need I say more?
Vet5 - Why does this faction need vet5? Even historically this is stupid, why would troops stationed on the western front be more experienced than their counterparts on the eastern front when the most experienced ones there actually came from the fight with the soviet union. How does it make sense that a squad of volks comprised of old men and young boys can gain more experience than guard and grenadier squads that have been fighting the entire war? Of course the realism argument doesn't matter when it comes to balance, but it does when considering the faction design. It adds nothing to the game whatsoever, since gaining vet is so meaningless once you have a schreck. It only means that volks with schrecks get even better in the late game.
KT - Sure, it takes a lot to tech to. But why should this thing be completely unkillable by any AT gun and have such massive AoE it easily wipes 6-man squads in a single shot?
Schwerer Panzer T4 building - You know what, why don't we add a flak gun that completely nullifies anything not a tank in a massive radius that only long range AT can touch? Sounds good. And the worst thing is, it's only slightly more expensive fuel wise than soviet tech building that have no other function than unlock T3/T4 units.

Not to say the other factions don't have their own share of bullshit options, but OKW has by far the most and is easily the most forgiving and easiest to play faction in the game.

All is said. I don't understand why there are still a lot of players to defend OKW. Number don't lie. OKW has a clearly advantage on lot of things. We don't say other faction have nothing good but that not as many as OKW and globaly yes OKW is OP. They have strat with no counter.

Don't give a damn about OKW,fall in line USF bullies(u deserve what OKW does to you because its exactly what u do vs wehr).Its only been a couple of patches,i want my ostheer fix patch,been waiting 6 months.I want to play 1vs 1 again as ostheer.

I see alot of posters are confusing efficiency with overpowerness. I say it's a difference between these two notions. It's not OKW's fault if T34 is shit. It's not OKW's fault if USF AT doesn't perform decently. It's not OKW's fault if bazooka is UP. And so on.... Many of OKW units are just fullfilling their jobs as they supposed to, compared to other units.
Walking Stuka? Nerf it a bit and you'll never see it again.
T4 AA gun nerf? Sure, but then nobody will place it on the field, AKA a good part of OKW play will derail from its initial concept. It's that a good thing? I doubt. The trucks exist in the game for OKW to be able to place them outside the base. Otherwise they were just buildings, isn't it? Unprotected trucks means death, everybody knows this.
KT, OBers, Vet5 can suffer some adjustements but who has the courage to make them in such way that OKW will not become completely UP? I doubt OKW can be ever changed in such a way that will not become OP or UP. Maybe people want to see another Paper Elite. I don't.

OKW consistently has the highest winrate in 1v1 and 2v2. They are OP in 1v1: They are straight up broken in 2v2s.

Let's look at the ladder shall we? Compared to soviets, for the top10 (accurate 15-01-15, if I miscalculated please let me know):

1v1:
OKW - 2103W/443L - lose 1 out of every 5.7 games.
Soviets 5307/1742L- lose 1 out of every 4.0 games.

By comparison, US is at 1778/460 - 1L in 4.9 and Ostheer is obviously last although with a better than expected 1L in 3.8 (5035/1810)

2v2R:
OKW - 2250W/723L - lose 1 out of every 4.1 games.
Soviets - 2586W/1381L - lose 1 out of every 2.9 games.

And that's not even looking at the fact that soviets must face the (arguably) underpowered Ostheer.

Maybe it's because AT stats aren't counted? Nope, AT still says the same thing (I think it's fair to assume double ostheer is not an important factor in these winrates):

2v2 AT:
Axis - 1706W/239L - lose 1 out of every 8.1 games
Allies - 1658W/320L - lose 1 out of every 6.1 games

Top10 ladder not enough you say? I would disagree. As shown the sample size is easily large enough, but if you want tourney stats, here we go:

Show Spoiler

From Round 3 to 6 (round 2 has an incorrect calculation):
OKW total: 53W/44L - 1 in 2.2, 55% winrate, with an abysmal 9.1% winrate on Semois OKW still manages to get an above 50% winrate.

Then there's the constant 75% searching axis in 2v2 ladder.

Finally, some personal gripes:

Stuka - This thing is so fucking ridiculous. It kills any infantry it touches instantly. Only the B4 can compare, but the stuka is mobile so can never be killed. In 2v2s, this unit is massively overpowered.
Obers - Need I say more?
Vet5 - Why does this faction need vet5? Even historically this is stupid, why would troops stationed on the western front be more experienced than their counterparts on the eastern front when the most experienced ones there actually came from the fight with the soviet union. How does it make sense that a squad of volks comprised of old men and young boys can gain more experience than guard and grenadier squads that have been fighting the entire war? Of course the realism argument doesn't matter when it comes to balance, but it does when considering the faction design. It adds nothing to the game whatsoever, since gaining vet is so meaningless once you have a schreck. It only means that volks with schrecks get even better in the late game.
KT - Sure, it takes a lot to tech to. But why should this thing be completely unkillable by any AT gun and have such massive AoE it easily wipes 6-man squads in a single shot?
Schwerer Panzer T4 building - You know what, why don't we add a flak gun that completely nullifies anything not a tank in a massive radius that only long range AT can touch? Sounds good. And the worst thing is, it's only slightly more expensive fuel wise than soviet tech building that have no other function than unlock T3/T4 units.

Not to say the other factions don't have their own share of bullshit options, but OKW has by far the most and is easily the most forgiving and easiest to play faction in the game.

This. So much this.
Sums up ALL my gripes with OKW.

i wait relic respond about next patch no any sign zzzz

Round 2 -Games-120


Round 3 - Games 66


Round 4 -Games 34


Round 5 and 6 no one chose ostheer.

'I think wehrmacht players need to learn to keep their HMG at the BACK and not the frontline,they need to keep their pak BACK'.I'm looking at you Katitof my friend.
Fcation should be deleted from 1 vs 1.
Why bother with all the hassle of 'balancing' these units.This is the best designed and 'flexible' faction with superb stock units.Its good as it is.

I see alot of posters are confusing efficiency with overpowerness. I say it's a difference between these two notions. It's not OKW's fault if T34 is shit. It's not OKW's fault if USF AT doesn't perform decently. It's not OKW's fault if bazooka is UP. And so on.... Many of OKW units are just fullfilling their jobs as they supposed to, compared to other units.
Walking Stuka? Nerf it a bit and you'll never see it again.
T4 AA gun nerf? Sure, but then nobody will place it on the field, AKA a good part of OKW play will derail from its initial concept. It's that a good thing? I doubt. The trucks exist in the game for OKW to be able to place them outside the base. Otherwise they were just buildings, isn't it? Unprotected trucks means death, everybody knows this.
KT, OBers, Vet5 can suffer some adjustements but who has the courage to make them in such way that OKW will not become completely UP? I doubt OKW can be ever changed in such a way that will not become OP or UP. Maybe people want to see another Paper Elite. I don't.

If there are some units that futfill theire role while other can't, it's quite because of difference of power between these units. Does'nt really matter if the balance come from nerf some units or by up others, no? what matter is balance.

The biggest problem with OKW remains that it is a micro-less blobbing faction.

To play at an intermediate level, all other factions require micro, tactical positioning, and anticipation of an opponent's moves (ie., moving MGs, keeping grens in cover at range, flanking with conscripts/rifles). The Kugel + the high resiliency of vet OKW troops means that all you have to do is survive to win, but with the "noob friendly MG" that is the Kugel a finger on the reverse button is all that's needed to have an extremely powerful early game as well. To counter the Kugel, 5-man squads and a free assault unit, an Allied player has to do twice the micro and be acting twice as quick as the OKW player. It's imbalance at the micro-level. I don't think anyone's done it but I'm pretty sure if you analyzed the CPM of the last tourney, you would see that Allied players generally have much higher CPM, not because they are faster, but because OKW players just don't have to do as much.

In my opinion, the early game is still the big problem, because all the other stuff everyone complains about (Panthers, Luchs, Obers) are not nearly as powerful if you take away the incredibly strong OKW early game. Imbalance snowballs as the game progresses, and I put it to you that the early game is the problem, not the late-game units.

Death to OKW lol. I see the rage is building up with the community in regards to OKW. If Relic does not fix this faction, I believe we will wait even longer for games with Axis and fan base will slowly diminish. I had a player last night rage at me because of Steel barbed wire, he was so mad he wished I get cancer LOL. Too much rage is getting out of hand when players fight OKW.

The biggest problem with OKW remains that it is a micro-less blobbing faction.

To play at an intermediate level, all other factions require micro, tactical positioning, and anticipation of an opponent's moves (ie., moving MGs, keeping grens in cover at range, flanking with conscripts/rifles). The Kugel + the high resiliency of vet OKW troops means that all you have to do is survive to win, but with the "noob friendly MG" that is the Kugel a finger on the reverse button is all that's needed to have an extremely powerful early game as well. To counter the Kugel, 5-man squads and a free assault unit, an Allied player has to do twice the micro and be acting twice as quick as the OKW player. It's imbalance at the micro-level. I don't think anyone's done it but I'm pretty sure if you analyzed the CPM of the last tourney, you would see that Allied players generally have much higher CPM, not because they are faster, but because OKW players just don't have to do as much.

In my opinion, the early game is still the big problem, because all the other stuff everyone complains about (Panthers, Luchs, Obers) are not nearly as powerful if you take away the incredibly strong OKW early game. Imbalance snowballs as the game progresses, and I put it to you that the early game is the problem, not the late-game units.

Great analysis ! Thank you

The biggest problem with OKW remains that it is a micro-less blobbing faction.

To play at an intermediate level, all other factions require micro, tactical positioning, and anticipation of an opponent's moves (ie., moving MGs, keeping grens in cover at range, flanking with conscripts/rifles). The Kugel + the high resiliency of vet OKW troops means that all you have to do is survive to win, but with the "noob friendly MG" that is the Kugel a finger on the reverse button is all that's needed to have an extremely powerful early game as well. To counter the Kugel, 5-man squads and a free assault unit, an Allied player has to do twice the micro and be acting twice as quick as the OKW player. It's imbalance at the micro-level. I don't think anyone's done it but I'm pretty sure if you analyzed the CPM of the last tourney, you would see that Allied players generally have much higher CPM, not because they are faster, but because OKW players just don't have to do as much.

In my opinion, the early game is still the big problem, because all the other stuff everyone complains about (Panthers, Luchs, Obers) are not nearly as powerful if you take away the incredibly strong OKW early game. Imbalance snowballs as the game progresses, and I put it to you that the early game is the problem, not the late-game units.

Well said.

It's not that Allies are hard to play, it's just that OKW is easy.

The biggest problem with OKW remains that it is a micro-less blobbing faction.

To play at an intermediate level, all other factions require micro, tactical positioning, and anticipation of an opponent's moves (ie., moving MGs, keeping grens in cover at range, flanking with conscripts/rifles). The Kugel + the high resiliency of vet OKW troops means that all you have to do is survive to win, but with the "noob friendly MG" that is the Kugel a finger on the reverse button is all that's needed to have an extremely powerful early game as well. To counter the Kugel, 5-man squads and a free assault unit, an Allied player has to do twice the micro and be acting twice as quick as the OKW player. It's imbalance at the micro-level. I don't think anyone's done it but I'm pretty sure if you analyzed the CPM of the last tourney, you would see that Allied players generally have much higher CPM, not because they are faster, but because OKW players just don't have to do as much.

In my opinion, the early game is still the big problem, because all the other stuff everyone complains about (Panthers, Luchs, Obers) are not nearly as powerful if you take away the incredibly strong OKW early game. Imbalance snowballs as the game progresses, and I put it to you that the early game is the problem, not the late-game units.

OP Deutscher pudding! Kugel is a ball (direct translation) or a pudding. Kubel is the word your looking for.

Is the OKW extremly OP?... no.
Aspects that are OP?....Yes.
Aspects that are UP?... Yes.

Blobbing is not specific to or exclusive to the OKW. Its a game mechanic that plagues all factions and is a separate issue.

IMHO both the OKW and USF need some balance adjustments. There are always 2 sides to the scale.

I've had it with OKW. Its causing too many issues.

Every fucking game i must face blob after blob. (even in the top 200 AT 2v2 ladder)

Okw is not fun to fight or play. They require very little cerebral activity to play. The only choice you would ever make is too go for stuka or something else.

There always comes that point in the game where ur units just cant compete and u slowly lose as OKw units gain vet.

Yeah, I agree on P-47 rockets do a great job, but it comes in a doctrine with paras which are too expensive and clearly underperforming.

loool this one was good 8/10, I applaud you

OP Deutscher pudding! Kugel is a ball (direct translation) or a pudding. Kubel is the word your looking for.

Is the OKW extremly OP?... no.
Aspects that are OP?....Yes.
Aspects that are UP?... Yes.

Blobbing is not specific to or exclusive to the OKW. Its a game mechanic that plagues all factions and is a separate issue.

IMHO both the OKW and USF need some balance adjustments. There are always 2 sides to the scale.

I think he meant KagelWagen

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kagel

Doing Kugels and Kegels increases Kubel suppression and also performs "male enhancement."

Just so we're clear:

Kugel:



Kegel:



Kubel: