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russian armor

M20 damage

12 Dec 2014, 11:52 AM
#1
avatar of 89456132

Posts: 211

Should its damage be increased slightly?
12 Dec 2014, 11:54 AM
#2
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

Nope. It's ok now.
12 Dec 2014, 12:42 PM
#3
avatar of Cadoc

Posts: 62

It could possibly use a long-range damage boost, IMO. As it is, past the first few minutes of the game, I personally just keep my M20 out of combat - it just dies almost instantly to shreck blobs and assorted AT, and the amount of damage it does is simply not worth the amount of micro required to keep it safe. I'd like it to be more than just a mine-laying machine.

This is all from a teamgame perspective, I don't really do 1v1s.
12 Dec 2014, 12:48 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Close range is fine, long range is much lower then Puma or 221 MG.
12 Dec 2014, 14:10 PM
#5
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

It could use Vet based DPS increase. Because a Vet 2 Pumas LMG is better then a Vet 3 M20s 50 o.O. YAY no combat vet AT ALL!
13 Dec 2014, 00:59 AM
#6
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

yeah, it's very much a close combat unit. it does a lot of damage up close but it's terrible at range.

damage normalization between far and near is another option.
13 Dec 2014, 01:09 AM
#7
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

at 5 minutes its fine people don't even have AT that early, 30 minutes into the game (if it lives that long) it does nothing at all to vet troops with 50% recieved accuracy bonuses, mabye increase the damage with vet 2/3 if any change at all its still a really good unit bought in like every game though but vet 2/3 m20s are somewhat rare
13 Dec 2014, 02:07 AM
#8
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I'd be hesitant to buff the M20 without fixing the Wehrmacht vs USF matchup first.
13 Dec 2014, 02:11 AM
#9
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

How about @vet3 vehicle crew gets body armor and 3thompsons ??
13 Dec 2014, 02:31 AM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

at 5 minutes its fine people don't even have AT that early, 30 minutes into the game (if it lives that long) it does nothing at all to vet troops with 50% recieved accuracy bonuses, mabye increase the damage with vet 2/3 if any change at all its still a really good unit bought in like every game though but vet 2/3 m20s are somewhat rare


It's not like we see vet3 M3 either. A late M20 is still useful for mining.
13 Dec 2014, 04:46 AM
#11
avatar of JuanElstretchyNeck

Posts: 226

It's fine how it is. I see serious is watching this thread, everyone who thinks the M20 is bad should watch his stream and take a lesson on correct use of smoke with the M20. If you use smoke properly, you can close in the distance to a shrek squad/racketen/pak/ and deal out some high DPS at short range.

M20 is fantastic at pushing Volks squads to stop the shrek from firing. Very frustrating when a skilled player does this to you (I'm looking at you serious Kappa )
Vaz
13 Dec 2014, 07:50 AM
#12
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

The m20 is one of the better performing USF tools for me. I don't buy it to sweep the axis army. It has other good uses, such as scouting (especially with vet bonus), and laying devastating mines, of course. Even unarmed it would be useful. I do hate the 340mp requirement for it though, but I guess a well placed m20 mine is worth it.
13 Dec 2014, 15:54 PM
#13
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

It is a utility car and it does have a lot of, well, utility. Giving it better long range damage on top of that might be too much.

On the other hand, it is a bit on the expensive side, manpower-wise, for what it delivers.
13 Dec 2014, 17:27 PM
#14
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I'd be hesitant to buff the M20 without fixing the Wehrmacht vs USF matchup first.


Good Point.
14 Dec 2014, 08:34 AM
#15
avatar of gman1211

Posts: 133

I actually agree with giving it a damage buff at long range, or even just lowering its cost to make it currently a more reasonable unit. Hell, even lowering the cost of its mines would be good.

But ya the problem with buffing this is it puts ostheer players in a rough spot. Im a little split on this one, the 340/20 cost m20 should exactly die super easy (not mentioning the 70 cost armour skirt upgrade). But it shouldn't roam around the battlefield slaughtering German infantry. Honestly when I play with the m20 vs ostheer, alot of the time it feels like a l2p issue on the ostheers part.
14 Dec 2014, 09:10 AM
#16
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

But ya the problem with buffing this is it puts ostheer players in a rough spot. Im a little split on this one, the 340/20 cost m20 should exactly die super easy (not mentioning the 70 cost armour skirt upgrade). But it shouldn't roam around the battlefield slaughtering German infantry. Honestly when I play with the m20 vs ostheer, alot of the time it feels like a l2p issue on the ostheers part.


It's not a L2P issue, Wehrmacht actually is fighting an uphill battle. For 1600 Manpower, both factions can buy 5 squads and tech up. But not only are Riflesquads superior to Grenadiers one-on-one, but they get a free BAR Riflesquad with tech. Wehrmacht's infantry are weak against USF and they have less of them. It also costs 70 fuel to reach the M20 Utility Car, and 75 to reach the 221 Scout Car. While it's true the M20 costs a lot more manpower than the 221, Wehrmacht does not get a free squad with teching.
14 Dec 2014, 09:20 AM
#17
avatar of gman1211

Posts: 133

    Context is always a killer, but to be clear my frame of view is from 2v2. And my retort is that you should try building mg42s, they do work. And hey if they vet up you can basically 1 shot the m20.
    14 Dec 2014, 11:47 AM
    #18
    avatar of Tablemat

    Posts: 12



    It's not a L2P issue, Wehrmacht actually is fighting an uphill battle. For 1600 Manpower, both factions can buy 5 squads and tech up. But not only are Riflesquads superior to Grenadiers one-on-one, but they get a free BAR Riflesquad with tech.



    Don't forget munitions income. What will the USF player be spending his on? Volley fire?

    Edit: Or put another way, when Ostheer techs up, they get free access to LMG42 and grenades
    14 Dec 2014, 12:57 PM
    #19
    avatar of minimitmit

    Posts: 36

    Actually the m20 in 1vs1 usf vs ostheer is terribly broken. A smart player just flanks the mg because it does not do that much damage without incendiary rounds ( and these need to be loaded first, a lot of time to just drive by). Even a faust doesn't stop it. Wanting a buff for this broken early game unit is just retarded. As someone pointed out, ost. falls behind thanks to teching and weak vanillagrens vs free tech unit ( with bar !) and m20 that is NOT countered by a 222. Just decrew your m20 and use the zook. A pak is required and that is far too expensive. You may think "320 mp for a pak is totally balanced" and it is the case, but not the tech required to counter a 4:xx minute lolcar. You already spend 320 MP just to get T2+building. Then you need the additional 320 for the pak. Guess who is losing the early game pretty hard so you almost get stuck at your base? You cant even upgrade the grens with 42s because you have 0 map control and thus no ammo to do so. If you manage to get to the lategame as ostheer you almost won though. This matchup is terrible and should be rebalanced. Maybe rework the m20 to a minebot and make it cheaper.
    14 Dec 2014, 13:04 PM
    #20
    avatar of Cadoc

    Posts: 62




    Don't forget munitions income. What will the USF player be spending his on? Volley fire?


    60 munitions per M20 mine, grenades, smoke, 60 munitions per BAR, 75 munitions for M20 armour upgrade.
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