M20 damage
12 Dec 2014, 11:52 AM
#1
Posts: 211
Should its damage be increased slightly?
12 Dec 2014, 11:54 AM
#2
Posts: 482
Nope. It's ok now.
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12 Dec 2014, 12:42 PM
#3
Posts: 62
It could possibly use a long-range damage boost, IMO. As it is, past the first few minutes of the game, I personally just keep my M20 out of combat - it just dies almost instantly to shreck blobs and assorted AT, and the amount of damage it does is simply not worth the amount of micro required to keep it safe. I'd like it to be more than just a mine-laying machine.
This is all from a teamgame perspective, I don't really do 1v1s.
This is all from a teamgame perspective, I don't really do 1v1s.
12 Dec 2014, 12:48 PM
#4
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Close range is fine, long range is much lower then Puma or 221 MG.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Dec 2014, 14:10 PM
#5
Posts: 1637
It could use Vet based DPS increase. Because a Vet 2 Pumas LMG is better then a Vet 3 M20s 50 o.O. YAY no combat vet AT ALL!
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
13 Dec 2014, 00:59 AM
#6
8 Posts: 2470
yeah, it's very much a close combat unit. it does a lot of damage up close but it's terrible at range.
damage normalization between far and near is another option.
damage normalization between far and near is another option.
13 Dec 2014, 01:09 AM
#7
Posts: 818
at 5 minutes its fine people don't even have AT that early, 30 minutes into the game (if it lives that long) it does nothing at all to vet troops with 50% recieved accuracy bonuses, mabye increase the damage with vet 2/3 if any change at all its still a really good unit bought in like every game though but vet 2/3 m20s are somewhat rare
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13 Dec 2014, 02:07 AM
#8
Posts: 4928
I'd be hesitant to buff the M20 without fixing the Wehrmacht vs USF matchup first.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
13 Dec 2014, 02:11 AM
#9
Posts: 444
How about @vet3 vehicle crew gets body armor and 3thompsons ??
13 Dec 2014, 02:31 AM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
at 5 minutes its fine people don't even have AT that early, 30 minutes into the game (if it lives that long) it does nothing at all to vet troops with 50% recieved accuracy bonuses, mabye increase the damage with vet 2/3 if any change at all its still a really good unit bought in like every game though but vet 2/3 m20s are somewhat rare
It's not like we see vet3 M3 either. A late M20 is still useful for mining.
My controls weren't working
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
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And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 Dec 2014, 04:46 AM
#11
Posts: 226
It's fine how it is. I see serious is watching this thread, everyone who thinks the M20 is bad should watch his stream and take a lesson on correct use of smoke with the M20. If you use smoke properly, you can close in the distance to a shrek squad/racketen/pak/ and deal out some high DPS at short range.
M20 is fantastic at pushing Volks squads to stop the shrek from firing. Very frustrating when a skilled player does this to you (I'm looking at you serious Kappa )
M20 is fantastic at pushing Volks squads to stop the shrek from firing. Very frustrating when a skilled player does this to you (I'm looking at you serious Kappa )
13 Dec 2014, 07:50 AM
#12
Posts: 1158
The m20 is one of the better performing USF tools for me. I don't buy it to sweep the axis army. It has other good uses, such as scouting (especially with vet bonus), and laying devastating mines, of course. Even unarmed it would be useful. I do hate the 340mp requirement for it though, but I guess a well placed m20 mine is worth it.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
13 Dec 2014, 15:54 PM
#13
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
It is a utility car and it does have a lot of, well, utility. Giving it better long range damage on top of that might be too much.
On the other hand, it is a bit on the expensive side, manpower-wise, for what it delivers.
On the other hand, it is a bit on the expensive side, manpower-wise, for what it delivers.
13 Dec 2014, 17:27 PM
#14
Posts: 1637
I'd be hesitant to buff the M20 without fixing the Wehrmacht vs USF matchup first.
Good Point.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
14 Dec 2014, 08:34 AM
#15
Posts: 133
I actually agree with giving it a damage buff at long range, or even just lowering its cost to make it currently a more reasonable unit. Hell, even lowering the cost of its mines would be good.
But ya the problem with buffing this is it puts ostheer players in a rough spot. Im a little split on this one, the 340/20 cost m20 should exactly die super easy (not mentioning the 70 cost armour skirt upgrade). But it shouldn't roam around the battlefield slaughtering German infantry. Honestly when I play with the m20 vs ostheer, alot of the time it feels like a l2p issue on the ostheers part.
But ya the problem with buffing this is it puts ostheer players in a rough spot. Im a little split on this one, the 340/20 cost m20 should exactly die super easy (not mentioning the 70 cost armour skirt upgrade). But it shouldn't roam around the battlefield slaughtering German infantry. Honestly when I play with the m20 vs ostheer, alot of the time it feels like a l2p issue on the ostheers part.
14 Dec 2014, 09:10 AM
#16
Posts: 4928
But ya the problem with buffing this is it puts ostheer players in a rough spot. Im a little split on this one, the 340/20 cost m20 should exactly die super easy (not mentioning the 70 cost armour skirt upgrade). But it shouldn't roam around the battlefield slaughtering German infantry. Honestly when I play with the m20 vs ostheer, alot of the time it feels like a l2p issue on the ostheers part.
It's not a L2P issue, Wehrmacht actually is fighting an uphill battle. For 1600 Manpower, both factions can buy 5 squads and tech up. But not only are Riflesquads superior to Grenadiers one-on-one, but they get a free BAR Riflesquad with tech. Wehrmacht's infantry are weak against USF and they have less of them. It also costs 70 fuel to reach the M20 Utility Car, and 75 to reach the 221 Scout Car. While it's true the M20 costs a lot more manpower than the 221, Wehrmacht does not get a free squad with teching.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
14 Dec 2014, 09:20 AM
#17
Posts: 133
14 Dec 2014, 11:47 AM
#18
Posts: 12
It's not a L2P issue, Wehrmacht actually is fighting an uphill battle. For 1600 Manpower, both factions can buy 5 squads and tech up. But not only are Riflesquads superior to Grenadiers one-on-one, but they get a free BAR Riflesquad with tech.
Don't forget munitions income. What will the USF player be spending his on? Volley fire?
Edit: Or put another way, when Ostheer techs up, they get free access to LMG42 and grenades
14 Dec 2014, 12:57 PM
#19
Posts: 36
Actually the m20 in 1vs1 usf vs ostheer is terribly broken. A smart player just flanks the mg because it does not do that much damage without incendiary rounds ( and these need to be loaded first, a lot of time to just drive by). Even a faust doesn't stop it. Wanting a buff for this broken early game unit is just retarded. As someone pointed out, ost. falls behind thanks to teching and weak vanillagrens vs free tech unit ( with bar !) and m20 that is NOT countered by a 222. Just decrew your m20 and use the zook. A pak is required and that is far too expensive. You may think "320 mp for a pak is totally balanced" and it is the case, but not the tech required to counter a 4:xx minute lolcar. You already spend 320 MP just to get T2+building. Then you need the additional 320 for the pak. Guess who is losing the early game pretty hard so you almost get stuck at your base? You cant even upgrade the grens with 42s because you have 0 map control and thus no ammo to do so. If you manage to get to the lategame as ostheer you almost won though. This matchup is terrible and should be rebalanced. Maybe rework the m20 to a minebot and make it cheaper.
14 Dec 2014, 13:04 PM
#20
Posts: 62
Don't forget munitions income. What will the USF player be spending his on? Volley fire?
60 munitions per M20 mine, grenades, smoke, 60 munitions per BAR, 75 munitions for M20 armour upgrade.
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