M36- badly underpowered?

I mostly just play the game. The Jackson outranges the Panther and the latter usually needs to seriously commit and expose itself if it wants to actually kill the Jackson, which of course is a risky business...especially so since the Jackson is much more agile than ie. a SU (no turret...). Even if it comes down to a trade, the US wins.
Edit: Just saw your playercard. Sry dude, dont confuse this for an ad hominem, but I suggest playing some Ost/OKW. Once you hit the sphere where US players know what they are doing, you are gonna have the strength of the Jackson amply demonstrated, believe me.

Parking right in front of the Jackson isnt exposing itself. Even in this Scenrio the Panther usually comes out on top. It may be risky to Chase it down into enemy territory but not AS risky as if the Jackson tried to do the same. That whole Good luck Penetrating and touching my massive HP pool frontally ability it has is very very handy against USF AT support.

I mostly just play the game. The Jackson outranges the Panther and the latter usually needs to seriously commit and expose itself if it wants to actually kill the Jackson, which of course is a risky business...especially so since the Jackson is much more agile than ie. a SU (no turret...). Even if it comes down to a trade, the US wins.
Edit: Just saw your playercard. Sry dude, dont confuse this for an ad hominem, but I suggest playing some Ost/OKW. Once you hit the sphere where US players know what they are doing, you are gonna have the strength of the Jackson amply demonstrated, believe me.

I have played OKW exclusivley until the Panther buff. Then I switched. And really...that has 0 to do with stats at all. As you can see by stats alone the Jackson is Mediocre. Its not Great. Not even better then the SU85 that came before it. Its just easier to move around the battlefield.

a little hp buff would be cool

...

Heartless, again, no decent US player will just let you park in front of his Jackson and slug it out, thats just micro 101. Obviously, first order of business when engaged with the Jackson: Hit U, fight at distance, when switching to offensive, use A-move with vehicle priority so you keep your distance automatically and do not keep the Jackson at the front, its function is not like that of the Tiger/KV1 (shield, bulletsponge), its a fragile hitter.

Heartless, again, no decent US player will just let you park in front of his Jackson and slug it out, thats just micro 101. Obviously, first order of business when engaged with the Jackson: Hit U, fight at distance, when switching to offensive, use A-move with vehicle priority so you keep your distance automatically.

You are arguing usage and I am arguing stats. Of course no decent US player would WANT to do that. But sometimes things like engine damage happen, sometimes maps require engaging at closer then ideal range. When talking about how a unit is used there are alot of variables.

When talking about stats there are not. Clearly for the cost the Jackson is not "Great". Its not HORRIBLE either. But its not enough to balance USF in any hope against heavy tanks for cost and pop cap.

If the Jackson was "Great" as in better then say a Pak40 or even as good....then it wouldnt be such a problem.

At the moment though against any "Decent" axis player RNG is going to screw over the Jackson more then it will help it. Watch Pwnges video with the Jackson trying to Pen a Panther that was 99% Dead and dying in the process. This is what happens with the Jackson at the moment.

If it were "Great" and the only thing the USF should ever need (no heavy tank) or Cheap and Spammable akin to a better performing M10 then yes it would be adequate.

Right now its the best you can get as USF but it is not Great.

The last few days I started learning to play USF properly, i've gone from 11-12 to 23-13. The secret to USF, is DON'T BUILD JACKSONS. I seriously compare this tank to the su-76, its that bad. American AT guns, bazookas, air strikes, or even mass Shermans are all better options to take down German armour.

Its fragile, its range is highly exaggerated, its inaccurate, its speed is meh, its penetration is iffy and it can't hurt infantry.

Heartless, again, no decent US player will just let you park in front of his Jackson and slug it out, thats just micro 101. Obviously, first order of business when engaged with the Jackson: Hit U, fight at distance, when switching to offensive, use A-move with vehicle priority so you keep your distance automatically and do not keep the Jackson at the front, its function is not like that of the Tiger/KV1 (shield, bulletsponge), its a fragile hitter.

+1 to LeYawn. He talks reason.

Suggestion for people thinking Jacks being suck,

L2P harder, you just used it wrong.

Neglect him Thunder, he is just a typical "foruml2per" troll with little to no skill in game.

The last few days I started learning to play USF properly, i've gone from 11-12 to 23-13. The secret to USF, is DON'T BUILD JACKSONS. I seriously compare this tank to the su-76, its that bad. American AT guns, bazookas, air strikes, or even mass Shermans are all better options to take down German armour.

Its fragile, its range is highly exaggerated, its inaccurate, its speed is meh, its penetration is iffy and it can't hurt infantry.

This. critical mass of shermans>critical mass of jacksons. Hell id rather have M10s. at least they can crush inf and flank easier.

IF anything i ONLY get a jackson if im very behind on fuel, which usually means i lose anyway, since No sherman is almost always a game loser.

Ive NEVER seen or won myself as an ame because of my jackson micro unless it a teamgame or something. If you have to rely on the jackson,you're just delaying the inevitable loss you're going to receive from any half decent german player.

Even if you do counter the german armor with jacksons,you're just leaving yourself open to getting absoulutely raped by the high vet blobs of doom + AT guns that either german faction has.


Moral of the story: If you're going to get a jackson at all,get at least 2-3 shermans first to screen it and allow it to get vet 1 for the AP rounds..

And i would love to see the USF get buffed,especially the jackson as much as the next guy,believe me.

If i had to buff it... id give it AP rounds at VET 0. thats it. its fine otherwise. i truly believe that.

The last few days I started learning to play USF properly, i've gone from 11-12 to 23-13. The secret to USF, is DON'T BUILD JACKSONS. I seriously compare this tank to the su-76, its that bad. American AT guns, bazookas, air strikes, or even mass Shermans are all better options to take down German armour.

Its fragile, its range is highly exaggerated, its inaccurate, its speed is meh, its penetration is iffy and it can't hurt infantry.

Its sad that Shermans are better AT from a surivivabilty standpoint.

If you try to aim at anything larger than a panzer IV at max range, you surely wont penetrate. :/ (well, you might, but you'll spend a dozen or so shots to kill and the enemy sure aint going to take it)

You get closer to try to improve your chance to deal damage, and you die. Very fun and amazing indeed...

And so i would like to think a little more durability could be in order. (Vet 0 AP rounds could actually do it, dealing a lot of damage isnt that scary unless the shot actually penetrates)

You are arguing usage and I am arguing stats. Of course no decent US player would WANT to do that. But sometimes things like engine damage happen, sometimes maps require engaging at closer then ideal range. When talking about how a unit is used there are alot of variables.

When talking about stats there are not. Clearly for the cost the Jackson is not "Great". Its not HORRIBLE either. But its not enough to balance USF in any hope against heavy tanks for cost and pop cap.

I was going to put a lengthy reply to this until you said the m36 is average? did you just call the BEST TD in the game average? seriously l2p thats the only solution. you for some reason expect the m36 to penetrate heavy armor 100 % of the time. might i remind you that the jp4 , su85 and the puma dont penetrate most tanks 100 % of time and i consider them to be excellent TD"s . and generally they dont have 2 they still pack an excellent rof and dps. the panther is exception.

This. critical mass of shermans>critical mass of jacksons. Hell id rather have M10s. at least they can crush inf and flank easier.

And the trend of allied players not wanting to use combined arms continues.

And the trend of allied players not wanting to use combined arms continues.

"Allied players". Its the meta of every faction spamming their best unit which is more effective than bothering with weapon teams that get mowed down by said blobs. It does not only affect "Allied players". Unless you know how to effectively win better than the meta as "Allies" using said combined arms.

And the trend of allied players not wanting to use combined arms continues.

So spamming Volks with King tiger/panther/JT is combined arms?


The trend of Axis players thinking they know combined arms of any of the factions continues.

I was going to put a lengthy reply to this until you said the m36 is average? did you just call the BEST TD in the game average? seriously l2p thats the only solution. you for some reason expect the m36 to penetrate heavy armor 100 % of the time. might i remind you that the jp4 , su85 and the puma dont penetrate most tanks 100 % of time and i consider them to be excellent TD"s . and generally they dont have 2 they still pack an excellent rof and dps. the panther is exception.

Read stats. Again not best TD. Most mobile TD yes. Best at destroying tanks? No. Again go read the long post with the Stats.

Edit:

I have yet to see one post with actual stats backing up the claim that the Jackson is Excellent at destorying tanks. Because one cant exist. When compared to its peers its simply no better or worse then other TDs (SU85/JP4) its just different. Faster Less Pen/HPs/DPS and has a turret. Nothing Amazing there. You dont see people running around saying how Great the SU85 nor the JP4 is....

Being Asymetrically balanced against those units does not make it Excellent especially considering the faction that its in (no easily available mines and unreliable and vet locked Snare) and it being the Anti Tank Apex of said faction.

EditAgain:

I am sure if the SU85 was in the Meta again people would be making that claim about it however....

This. critical mass of shermans>critical mass of jacksons. Hell id rather have M10s. at least they can crush inf and flank easier.

IF anything i ONLY get a jackson if im very behind on fuel, which usually means i lose anyway, since No sherman is almost always a game loser.

Ive NEVER seen or won myself as an ame because of my jackson micro unless it a teamgame or something. If you have to rely on the jackson,you're just delaying the inevitable loss you're going to receive from any half decent german player.

Even if you do counter the german armor with jacksons,you're just leaving yourself open to getting absoulutely raped by the high vet blobs of doom + AT guns that either german faction has.


Moral of the story: If you're going to get a jackson at all,get at least 2-3 shermans first to screen it and allow it to get vet 1 for the AP rounds..

And i would love to see the USF get buffed,especially the jackson as much as the next guy,believe me.

If i had to buff it... id give it AP rounds at VET 0. thats it. its fine otherwise. i truly believe that.

I personally like the Jackson believe it or not. But I like the JP4 and the SU85 as well. Its good against Mediums. And it was OK when WFA released. The biggest problem for the Jackson was the Panther Rebuff. I can handle Tigers with it because it can kite Tigers. The Panther rebuff has returned it to Need for speed with Adamantium Frontal Armor and now the Panther will not pay dearly enough for trying to challenge the USF APEX Tank Killer.

This is particularly problematic with OKW because they can field the Panther at around the same time as USF first Sherman assuming equal map control.

Also the ironic thing is. For the longest time (if you guys remember) the Apex of the Soviet AT was the SU85. There was nothing better back then. And it was considered by Relic and the larger community as inadequate at dealing with YOU GUESSED IT PANTHERS AND HEAVY TANKS.

And here we are again with WFA with the USF in the SAME BOAT the Soviets were in. Sure the Jackson is more mobile and can better survive a Blitzing P4 then an SU85 unsupported by AT nades could but its just as dead to a Panther.

And the trend of allied players not wanting to use combined arms continues.

Uh no...i simply wrote that i'd rather have M10's than jacksons nondoctrinally.....which is assuming they'd be used together with shermans as stated by my "Get 2-3 shermans first" comment..

And when i was talking about critical mass i was referring to the fact that 3-4 shermans can simply do more than 3-4 jacksons. Since the jacksons are only decent at one job...unlike shermans which are decent/good at many jobs....since it is a workhorse medium tank after all....


...are you trolling or what?

The last few days I started learning to play USF properly, i've gone from 11-12 to 23-13. The secret to USF, is DON'T BUILD JACKSONS. I seriously compare this tank to the su-76, its that bad. American AT guns, bazookas, air strikes, or even mass Shermans are all better options to take down German armour.

Its fragile, its range is highly exaggerated, its inaccurate, its speed is meh, its penetration is iffy and it can't hurt infantry.

Yes, just like in the old vCOH it's obviously not cost effective to build a tank destroyer which is expensive, get hard counter by what it counters, and can't do shit to infantry.

God Relic why bother to change the model from M10 (vCOH) to M36 (COH2)? As for now it's just the same. Against an equal skilled opponent only when you have a big advantage you can enjoy the luxury of using M36/M10, but if not you better go with AT guns as the main AT for USF.

Uh... the m36 Jackson is amazing. Easily/by far the best TD in the game discounting the Elefant/JT when it comes to 2v2 and above.

Not so great in 1v1, no TDs are good in 1v1 in my opinion - I guess the Panther as OKW, but that's about it.

But yeah. 60 range, great mobility, turret, huge damage, great vet 1 ability, crew can repair itself/allied tanks between fights etc etc.

Lemon gets Jacksons every single game we play as allies, they always pay off. Just today we took down two KTs and numerous Tigers - and we regularly kill Panthers with them as well.

Great tank, certainly not underpowered. The su85 however is terrible and really needs some love.