M36- badly underpowered?

Trying to use a Jackson like a Puma gets it killed by a Puma.

LOL soo sooo true.

It would be helpful if the M36 penetration doesn't drop to 160 which even has a small chance to bounce off a Panzer IV.

Thats its a TD doesnt mean it gets a free pass. 160 penetration is a lot especially if you take hvap into account. the suggestions here would make all axis heavy tanks completely worthless which they somewhat already are .against the usf i will always say :build either puma's/jp4's and skip the heavies they dont work against jacksons unless you are on a cc map.

That it doesnt penetrate 100 % of the time doesn't make an unit useless, after all i consider the puma one of the better axis AT units and it has only 50 % chance of penetrating a t-34/sherman

Thats its a TD doesnt mean it gets a free pass. 160 penetration is a lot especially if you take hvap into account. the suggestions here would make all axis heavy tanks completely worthless which they somewhat already are .against the usf i will always say :build either puma's/jp4's and skip the heavies they dont work against jacksons unless you are on a cc map.

That it doesnt penetrate 100 % of the time doesn't make an unit useless, after all i consider the puma one of the better axis AT units and it has only 50 % chance of penetrating a t-34/sherman

Tell that to the Devs after they made the Panther 100% Pen against all of USF....

USF needs M18 hellcat (commander)

The gun was almost identical to the EZ8

The Ez8 reliably penetrates

lightly armoured, high fired rate, high pentration, average damage, 50 range, .50 cal upgrade, and same cost and vet as m10,

The m18 was also super fast. 97kph-on-road fast. And yes, it had the same gun as the m10.

The m36 was based on the Sherman chassis with the 90mm gun. But it was much lighter than the sherman (thinner and open topped turret among other things) and was faster than a Sherman with better acceleration as well.

Another thing to add is it takes a long time to simply build the jackson
-It constantly misses
-has the same range as panther
-slow
-misses a lot
-gets killed by 2-3 shrek shots


Microing the Jackson is a hell of a time. it often times gets stuck on supporting Sherman and often times cant turn around, accelerate fast enough to keep it alive.
The unit could use a slight pen buff, health increase, and speed/acceleration rate.

While the people around here praising / feeling there is nothing wrong with the troll Katitoff since 2013, seriously why should I type something other than his style?

Oh well, when I was writing real contribution last time in here, what did I get? Got trolled to death.

Meh just ignore him dude, he doesnt even play the game, one of the many forum warriors who enjoy talking trash about the game rather than actually playing it, take no notice

Another thing to add is it takes a long time to simply build the jackson
-It constantly misses
-has the same range as panther
-slow
-misses a lot
-gets killed by 2-3 shrek shots


Microing the Jackson is a hell of a time. it often times gets stuck on supporting Sherman and often times cant turn around, accelerate fast enough to keep it alive.
The unit could use a slight pen buff, health increase, and speed/acceleration rate.

It actually has 10 more range then the Panther. And it has less accuracy then the Panther (thus misses alot) but ever so soooo slightly better accuracy on the Move then the Panther.

And yes, it had the same gun as the m10.

The M10 should be using the M7 76mm gun. The M18 used the M1A2 gun which was more powerful.

Thats its a TD doesnt mean it gets a free pass. 160 penetration is a lot especially if you take hvap into account. the suggestions here would make all axis heavy tanks completely worthless which they somewhat already are .against the usf i will always say :build either puma's/jp4's and skip the heavies they dont work against jacksons unless you are on a cc map.

That it doesnt penetrate 100 % of the time doesn't make an unit useless, after all i consider the puma one of the better axis AT units and it has only 50 % chance of penetrating a t-34/sherman

Funny since the panther kills so many things effectively. The Panzer IV/70 can even shrug off shells from the M36 like it fired rubber shells.


The only things this M36 is really a threat to are Panzer IV and Tigers. It can barely harm a King Tiger.

One time my opponent joked with me ( I think he was joking) that I was shooting tennis balls at him.

I actually have some good use of m36 in close range. It usually comes down to something like, am I willing to lose this jackson so he loses that more expensive thing?

Still, it's situational. It's map dependent. You need the RNG on your side. Your timing must be right.

One time my opponent joked with me ( I think he was joking) that I was shooting tennis balls at him.

I actually have some good use of m36 in close range. It usually comes down to something like, am I willing to lose this jackson so he loses that more expensive thing?

Still, it's situational. It's map dependent. You need the RNG on your side. Your timing must be right.

You should buy real shells next time.

I think the Jackson would benefit from a vet adjustment. The base unit is alright but it's not a good counter to late game axis. Adding penetration/ accuracy to the vet could help the Jackson be worth keeping alive.

Regardless it needs a health buff. Either that or a front armor increase

The M36 is completely insane. End of story.

Remember that it penetrates with ease haslonger range, more damage than any other german tank short of the Elephant and the Jagdtiger.

That's not the ingredients of something that sucks dude, I'd say you suck.

It's perfectly fine if anything a bit too strong if you get many.

The Jackson is a terrible unit. If the Germans have any infantry with shreks in front of their tanks, and everyone but the noobs do, you basically cant use your jackson.

Yes, only problem with it is, that its 2 shot by any single infantry squad with a Panzerschrek. GG.

The Jackson, badly underpowered. Now, I've heard it all. Yes, it is not easy to use, but it contains or even outright counters all German armor save for the JT/Ele....

The M36 is completely insane. End of story.

Remember that it penetrates with ease haslonger range, more damage than any other german tank short of the Elephant and the Jagdtiger.

That's not the ingredients of something that sucks dude, I'd say you suck.

It's perfectly fine if anything a bit too strong if you get many.

Did you read where the JP4 has the same range, better DPS, Better Pen, Better Armor, More Health, Better Vet? Isnt OKW German?

And for Ostheer the Panther only lacks 10 range on it which is about the length of a T70....

LOL soo sooo true.

That awkward moment when the Puma you jacked is doing better AT work than the Jackson you made. In a supporting role.

The Jackson, badly underpowered. Now, I've heard it all. Yes, it is not easy to use, but it contains or even outright counters all German armor save for the JT/Ele....

And the Panther. And if its so great you must think the SU85 is OP since it can have Mark Vehicle with it and standard it has better Pen/DPS and can site for itself right?

Dont you guys compare the stats at all?

Wall of Text from my Steam Post:

USF AT Situation or Why USF players want a Heavy Tank
I really feel alot of Axis primary players just dont feel the USF players pain. They tend to not get it for a couple of reasons.

1.) They dont play USF against equally skilled opponents that know how to exploit USFs weakness or play to the Meta.

2.) They heard once or somehow are under the impression that the Jackson is EXCELLENT AT and they never bothered themselves with looking up the stats.

So lets deep dive this and take a look at AT that the USF has available and compare it to the Soviets and Axis shall we?

Lets start with the Jackson vs the SU85

SU85

HPs 640 Armor 140/70 Max Speed 5.7 Cost 340/120 Range 60 Site Range 60 DPS 37 near 19 Max range Pen 200/190/180 Target Size 22

Jackson
HPs 480 (worse) Armor 130/60 (worse) Max Speed 6.5 (better) cost 350/125 (worse) DPS 32 near 22 Max (Worse) Pen 200/180/160 (LOL WORSE) Site range 40 (Worse) Has Turret (Better) Target Size 24 (worse)


Verdict:

The SU85 is better in almost everyway but has no turret. The Turret is partially made up for by the slow Turret traverse on the Jackson but not entirely. Add to this the Potential of Mark Vehicle Plus an SU85 and in that case the Jackson has about an estimated 40% less DPS then the SU85. Overall SU85 is better at the Job of Tank destroying.

JagdPanzer IV
HPs 640 (Better) Armor 230/80 (WAYYYYYY Better) Max Speed 5.5 (quite a bit worse) cost 470/135 (a little worse) Site range this I cant figure out since the unit is in permanent Focus Sites and I cant figure out how to work that formula but its more not as much as the SU85. DPS near 32 Max 25 (Better) Pen 200.0/185.0/170.0 (Better) No turret (Worse) Target Size 17 (LOL WAY BETTER even better then most light vehicles)

Verdict:

The JP4 has no turret but is INCREDIBLY TANKY. In a Shoot off a JP4 would crush the Jackson as the Jackson would have a VERY hard time hitting it due to its really small target size and even a hit would have trouble penetrating the frontal armor. Its also to important to note the Vet differences. While the Jackson at Vet 1 can spend Muni to Penetrate on actual hits the JP4 at Vet 1 can cloak and get the First shot advantage. Also at Vet 2 this monster goes up to 800 HPs.

Jacksons Ranking based on pure stats alone:

So as you can see out of these Three Dedicated Tank Destoryers that have no AI whatsoever the Jackson clocks in at Number 3 in the actual destroying tanks department. This doesnt include the balance between that factions at all as with a Pen that high the JP4 has 100% Pen on all USF tanks at all Ranges except the Easy 8 and Bulldozer at Max Range. Also important to note all have 60 Range so the Jackson has no range advantage at all.

Now lets look at the Panther which is a Tank Destroyer of a Different kind.

HPs 800 or 960 at Vet 2 (WAY Better) Armor 320/100 (WAY Better) Max Speed 6.6 (Better) Cost 490/175 (quite a bit worse) Site Range 40 (equal) Range 50 (a little worse but still better then typical armor) DPS near 21 max 14. (Way Worse) Turret with better Traverse (better) Pen 260/240/220 (WAY Better) Can get an MG to help with infantry bleed as well as its free but weak pintle MG (Better) Target Size 24 (Equal this i find to be hilariously funny)

Verdict:

Although not a true tank destoryer specialist the Panther does have SOME AI firepower. It is also more or less immune frontally to all types of USF AT. At Vet 1 it gets Blitz and based on some Ost commanders it can get Smoke making it the easiest tank in the game to preserve. At Vet 2 it more or less changes into a Heavy tank. Although it has less DPS it too has 100% Pen on all USF armor of every type and can easily rush past AT and bounce Snares to get a Jackson kill. The only way to beat this beast with a Jackson is to have enough AT around the Jackson to discourage it getting rushed. Because the Jackson CANNOT escape and will never win.

Now lets take a look at the Dreaded Pak 40. This is not a tank obviously but it is Ostheers AT Gun. Since the Myth is USF is has the Jackson and the Jackson is sooooo damn good at killing tanks I think this bears note. As both are used defensivly. Nobody goes all cowboy with a Jackson because its suicide and losing one in a 1v1 is GG.

Pak 40
Cost 320 MP (So much better its not even funny) DPS 32 near and 26 Max (Better WTF??) Pen 210/200/190 (once again Better) Range 60 (the same) Slow to turn (worse) Vulnerable to HE and infantry (Worse) Can be recrewed and actually harder to kill (better)

Verdict:

If Ost wants Jackson like Performance they simply need to build a Pak 40. Which is not only insultingly cheap it comes very early. Combine this with Fausts and Shreks and overall you have a much better AT force then the Jackson could bring on its best day.

Jackson and its roll vs call in AT:

There really is no point in bringing up the stats suffice it to say the Elephant, Jagdtiger, and Pak43 blow the Jackson out of the water.

USF AT and its relation to Axis armor:

USF AT in general can only reliably Penetrate Armor at the Panzer IV level. Even then a Panzer IV or a Stug can easily do more damage to a Bazooka squad then they take in return. The 57MM does do quite a number on these though once it hits Vet 1 and gets its crazy range. But Panther and up its completley hopeless.

Also since there are a plethora of Axis tanks that have such high armor values you can severley reduce the effective DPS of Allied Dedicated AT due to high bounce Percentages. While conversly 95% of all Axis AT DPS is straight to HPs due to a combination of overall higher Pen for class and overall lower USF Armor per class.

In essence the lopsided nature of USF armor vs Axis armor is not made if up for in any sense at all. Having 4x as many tanks for example against Ostheer still is not a Guaranteed Victory as Paks can take them out with ease when supported and a Tiger can easily take on Three Shermans with even the most minimal support and Win the battle.

On the Subject of OKW and Fuel Penalty Argument this is not as bad as you think. First OKWs base sector fuel income is not penalized. So in the first few minutes of the game fuel is equal. Second OKW starts with 40 Fuel and USF with 0. Third OKW tech is the cheapest in the game. Fourth Everything OKW really needs to win can be T0 with Lufftwaffe (Sturms/Volks/Rak/Kubel/MG/Falls) although it would be incredibly hard to do so and not practical. Which is why they start without enough fuel to make their first tech choice Free of charge. Further with Muni conversion the fuel disparity no longer exists.

Now that you know the stats does this open your eyes a little bit to the complaints and struggle the USF has? Why P47 is so heavily leveraged?

TLR

Jackson is actually the worst of all Non Doctrinal Tank Destoryers as shown by the stats. USF AT overall is horribly balanced and even a Pak 40 would put them in a better place. If there is no USF heavy tank option and even if there is the Jackson needs a SEVERE BUFF seeing as the units its fighting are much much heavier then what Axis needs to deal with.

And the Panther. And if its so great you must think the SU85 is OP since it can have Mark Vehicle with it and standard it has better Pen/DPS and can site for itself right?

Dont you guys compare the stats at all?

I mostly just play the game. The Jackson outranges the Panther and the latter usually needs to seriously commit and expose itself if it wants to actually kill the Jackson, which of course is a risky business...especially so since the Jackson is much more agile than ie. a SU (no turret...). Even if it comes down to a trade, the US wins.
Edit: Just saw your playercard. Sry dude, dont confuse this for an ad hominem, but I suggest playing some Ost/OKW. Once you hit the sphere where US players know what they are doing, you are gonna have the strength of the Jackson amply demonstrated, believe me.