4 things that would make CoH2 instantly better

Fires should cost munitions not manpower, maybe around 30 muni each and make them longer to build during blizzards.

No no they can change this game a lot with blizzards, vaulting, true sight and new units are all fantastic ways to lift the game to a new different level.

Ofcourse, they have changed a few things, but most of the changes are heavily debated, let alone considered innovative. For instance, the bulk of the units in CoH2 can be found in CoH1 and the East Front Mod. I do admit that creativity is limited by the existence of actual WW2 units and circumstances, but I am still somewhat dissapointed with CoH2.

Fires should cost munitions not manpower,

Chopping down a tree and create fire with a lighter seems a good rationale for the manpower cost.

Great read, thanks Tommy. Hope to see more stuff like this from you.

Fires should cost munitions not manpower, maybe around 30 muni each and make them longer to build during blizzards.

30 munitions is far more costly than 100 manpower. If fire pits were 30 munitions, they'd have to be indestructible, otherwise it'd be a horrible cost to place on yourself (considering the enemy can also use the fire pit). Putting a high munitions cost on them doesn't make blizzards better, it makes them even more annoying. No one would be happy about it.

1. Change the upkeep system.

Hell yeah, the upkeep now in CoH2 is the biggest bullshit. WTF should the better player be punished? it makes no sense.


2. Let us see what is actually happening.

Especially, suppressed, pinned, being converted into ice cream, roasting
why can't they give us the nice yellow/red flashing UI back to us?

Blizzard can change UI of SC2 thousands time through patches, I don't undserstand why Relic cannot


3. Blizzards

Hello? you want reality so making blizzard = a giant white smoke all over the screen, why don't you just turn all into white, for reality. Make some sense. Relic


4. Fix the vehicle critical system.
Dunno about it, the upkeep is shit enough


May I add a fifth?

5. Defense-work

- Bring back CoH1 mines and delete the crap S-mine field

shouldn't anyone disagree CoH1 mines-play are very fun to watch and play with, that's how competitive game differentiate with noobs game

- Bring back CoH1 wire and sandbag

Soviet wire are fine, but Ostheer wire is shit-like, buggy, and how the fuck they need that long to wire just a little area? I wanted to wire up a choke, take me like 2 mins and extra babysitting on it to really close up the gap, then cons just pass over like the wire didn't exist, WTF? I just need 1-2 sec to finish this job in CoH1

1. Change the upkeep system.

Hell yeah, the upkeep now in CoH2 is the biggest bullshit. WTF should the better player be punished? it makes no sense.


2. Let us see what is actually happening.

Especially, suppressed, pinned, being converted into ice cream, roasting
why can't they give us the nice yellow/red flashing UI back to us?

Blizzard can change UI of SC2 thousands time through patches, I don't undserstand why Relic cannot


3. Blizzards

Hello? you want reality so making blizzard = a giant white smoke all over the screen, why don't you just turn all into white, for reality. Make some sense. Relic


4. Fix the vehicle critical system.
Dunno about it, the upkeep is shit enough


May I add a fifth?

5. Defense-work

- Bring back CoH1 mines and delete the crap S-mine field

shouldn't anyone disagree CoH1 mines-play are very fun to watch and play with, that's how competitive game differentiate with noobs game

- Bring back CoH1 wire and sandbag

Soviet wire are fine, but Ostheer wire is shit-like, buggy, and how the fuck they need that long to wire just a little area? I wanted to wire up a choke, take me like 2 mins and extra babysitting on it to really close up the gap, then cons just pass over like the wire didn't exist, WTF? I just need 1-2 sec to finish this job in CoH1

5)

I agree. I don't see a need for German and Soviet mines to be different whatsoever. I believe it was another way to differentiate the two factions, but the units do that well enough already, and the German anti-infantry mines are costly and incredibly shitty.

Ostheer wire is indeed bugged, although I believe that's something Relic knows and is working on. Wire doesn't need to be built faster, though. The cost of getting a wire-cutter early game is extreme, and considering most games you'll only have 1 or 2 engineer/pioneer squads, gutting the damage of one of them isn't anything to take lightly. Wire should be an option for when you control an area, not for running up and wiring a choke before the enemy can respond. If builders had free wire cutting like in vCOH, things would be a different story, but with the current system, speedy wiring would just slow down the game and be annoying for viewers and players alike.

COH2 is a much faster paced game and adding more sandbags, wiring, or defenses in general would slow it down considerably. Keep in mind that Relic has tried considerably to make the game fun for both the winner and the loser of each match, as evidenced by the current upkeep system (which makes comebacks far easier) and the speed and ease of assaulting a defended position (makes decisive battles quicker, yet still allows you to retreat some forces if it doesn't go your way). From the perspective of the game developer, the winner and the loser of each match are both equally as important in terms of game design.

30 munitions is far more costly than 100 manpower. If fire pits were 30 munitions, they'd have to be indestructible, otherwise it'd be a horrible cost to place on yourself (considering the enemy can also use the fire pit). Putting a high munitions cost on them doesn't make blizzards better, it makes them even more annoying. No one would be happy about it.

30 muni was just a random number, it could be 15 or 20 muni. But it definitely should cost muni instead of manpower.

TOMMMYYYYY YOU ARE MY MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except billizard i agree with EVERYTHING else you have said specially this stupid vehicle critical craps : Driver got drunk Drive in love Crew having dinner Crew got excited and so many other craps I SEE NO point in their existence.
The reason i love billizards is because they give much more prediction to the game and i like that i hope they fix it back to how it was like slowing units and so on. just because of the prediction no other reason

5)

I agree. I don't see a need for German and Soviet mines to be different whatsoever. I believe it was another way to differentiate the two factions, but the units do that well enough already, and the German anti-infantry mines are costly and incredibly shitty.

Ostheer wire is indeed bugged, although I believe that's something Relic knows and is working on. Wire doesn't need to be built faster, though. The cost of getting a wire-cutter early game is extreme, and considering most games you'll only have 1 or 2 engineer/pioneer squads, gutting the damage of one of them isn't anything to take lightly. Wire should be an option for when you control an area, not for running up and wiring a choke before the enemy can respond. If builders had free wire cutting like in vCOH, things would be a different story, but with the current system, speedy wiring would just slow down the game and be annoying for viewers and players alike.

COH2 is a much faster paced game and adding more sandbags, wiring, or defenses in general would slow it down considerably. Keep in mind that Relic has tried considerably to make the game fun for both the winner and the loser of each match, as evidenced by the current upkeep system (which makes comebacks far easier) and the speed and ease of assaulting a defended position (makes decisive battles quicker, yet still allows you to retreat some forces if it doesn't go your way). From the perspective of the game developer, the winner and the loser of each match are both equally as important in terms of game design.

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME POINT

guys, the reward you get for playing better isn't that you have the same manpower income rate as the player who's losing.

It's the fact that your squads are still alive, vetted, and cheaper to reinforce than rebuild.

Plus you will have map control.

You can spam all the infantry you want once you're locked in your base with minimal fuel and munition income, it's not going to help you against a solid armor force backed up by vetted infantry squads.

Fires should cost munitions not manpower, maybe around 30 muni each and make them longer to build during blizzards.

maybe a combination of muni + fuel in different proportions for each factions is a better design

I don't think anyone has mentioned this one yet, but its a pretty damn huge one. Gren/Scripts AT abilities' animations can not be dodged. Once you come within the range, don't even bother trying to reverse out because if he is fast on his hotkeys you will still get naded/fausted even if you manage reverse across the screen before he throws it.

guys, the reward you get for playing better isn't that you have the same manpower income rate as the player who's losing.

It's the fact that your squads are still alive, vetted, and cheaper to reinforce than rebuild.

Plus you will have map control.

You can spam all the infantry you want once you're locked in your base with minimal fuel and munition income, it's not going to help you against a solid armor force backed up by vetted infantry squads.

1. We're talking half the Manpower income. Half. If not less.

2. Vet is a huge issue too, thanks to most of it being earned from taking damage rather than inflicting it.

3. Cheaper reinforcement isn't even coming close to offsetting earning 50% the MP of your opponent.

4. Map control is good, but its importance has been reduced from CoH1 as well.

5. This is CoH we're talking about, the ideal has always been that you can field a viable Manpower only force. ATGs and Infantry AT and all that.

If you're just trying to say that Upkeep is necessary to encourage comebacks in the face of all those snowball mechanics you mentioned (Vet, Map Control, Reinforce %), then of course! The problem is they went and fucked up the amount.

But squads that are alive need to be reinforced, and usually since I'm doing so well, I'll have many squads needing to be reinforced. This number of squads reflects the amount of territory (a little over half the map, as Ostheer, like Wehrmacht I consider this to be doing really well) I'm holding and protecting. Right now what happens is that the enemy gets pushed off the map but can easily come back with tanks which is not a problem, except for the fact that I haven't been able to field enough ATGs or tanks myself because of my ridiculously low MP income.

I just played a game vs the PC on CoH too look at my MP income. I had fielded 2 pios, 2 volks, 2 mgs, a sniper and at least 2 gren squads. My pop was around 35'ish with an MP income of well over 200/minute. It might be that pop goes up quicker in CoH2 because I often find myself looking at my pop and having 50+/100. I'd have to do a bit more "testing" with CoH1/CoH2 to get a better feel (I hadn't played CoH1 in a while).

Agreed on all parts.

Though if anything the UI I think should be the first thing they change because now it's the most terrible thing in the game.

I really wouldn't want to be the UI guy in Relic. Dude probably made it almost from scratch to look so cool and rad, full of swag thinking - damn, this is gonna rock and looks so cool with all the new colors and all.

The lack of information(lack of bullet direction, pack trail and etc.)and blizzard whitiness I don't believe their argument for leaving it like this is battle grittines and realism when they are thinking of leaving mirrors in.

From the perspective of the game developer, the winner and the loser of each match are both equally as important in terms of game design.

Yeah, unless you make a statement that you want this game to become a competative e-sport arena.

... when they are thinking of leaving mirrors in.

I'm almost certain mirrors will be left in, at least for private matches. They have special voice acting for mirror matches. I heard my conscripts calling my opponent a traitor at one point. I've always wondered, how did tournaments work in vCoH when both finalists wanted to be the same faction? Flip a coin?

I don't think anyone has mentioned this one yet, but its a pretty damn huge one. Gren/Scripts AT abilities' animations can not be dodged. Once you come within the range, don't even bother trying to reverse out because if he is fast on his hotkeys you will still get naded/fausted even if you manage reverse across the screen before he throws it.

yep thats sth to consider as well , though tbh if conscrips get any more nerfs they ll be dying to flies falling on them , another thing is that molotof and riflenade take literally ages to be thrown

I'm almost certain mirrors will be left in, at least for private matches. They have special voice acting for mirror matches. I heard my conscripts calling my opponent a traitor at one point. I've always wondered, how did tournaments work in vCoH when both finalists wanted to be the same faction? Flip a coin?

The one who drained less VP in the series had the pick.

1. Change the upkeep system. Basically, change it back to how it worked in CoH1. Which was fine. That basically means a system where you start with a high, fixed upkeep, which is affected by the following factors;

Size of army (bigger army = lower upkeep and vice versa)

Amount of territory held (more territory = lower upkeep and vice versa)

This is opposed to the current system whereby you start with a fixed upkeep which simply goes down according to army size and nothing else. In case it wasn't clear by virtue of being top of this list, it's a fucking horrible way to do upkeep. It utterly throttles a player in the mid-late game and punishes you for unit preservation. It makes actually securing a win far, far too difficult, should one gain a sizeable advantage in the early game or gain the tech advantage. It will probably be necessary to make the upkeep system as a whole less punishing, to compensate for the lack of Supply Yard upgrades or global veterancy.

There seem to be quite a few errors in here:

1) bigger army = lower upkeep? In CoH1 upkeep rose with the unit count and therefore your manpower income diminished the bigger your army became.

2) more territory = lower upkeep. Strategic points and only strategic points granted an additional manpower income of +3 (+4 with an observation point built). The upkeep was at no point lowered by this, but the income increased by 3 times the number of held strategic points. Other held points (resource points) had no influence on upkeep and only served to raise the population cap.

Edit: I was rightfully corrected by Kolaris that every captured territory grants +3 manpower. Apologies for the false statement. Parts of my argument remain valid.

3) (I already mentioned this) Global veterancy upgrades of the Kampfkraft centre had no influence on the manpower income to my knowledge.