OKW, the root of most balance issues?

I disagree. Jacksons can hold any Ostheer armour at bay, so can double AT-Guns. Tbh I think the USF AT-Gun is very underestimated and underused (giving it an actula hold fire ability would make it even stronger). I find the absence of a decent mine why more limiting.

US AT Guns are a joke against KT or JT. And even against the Panther. The only way to be successful with them is to have enough munis for the AP Rounds and the the RNG gods on your side (shots from the Tanks missing your AT guns).

The faction can also deploy some of the most powerful tanks in the game, the fearsome King Tiger and mighty Jagdtiger.

They are "most powerful tanks in the game" in name only. It's purely thematic, and I never build them ever. King tiger is so ridiculously slow and the turret traverse so slow that it might as well be a glorified tank destroyer. Jagtiger can sit in one place on the map behind buildings or trees, protected by a blob of ATG, and that's all. Sturmtiger is a joke, etc. All of this stuff came out of the box pre-nerfed and useless.

With the amount of unique things the OKW brought, it became difficult to balance this faction in relation to other factions.

None of this stuff in-game is difficult to balance. The balance team simply doesn't know what it is doing, doesn't care, is lazy, or doesn't have the resources/time to sit down and balance the game. I'm not flaming relic just for the sake of flaming them, I am simply stating the obvious.

Even before OKW/USA hit the field, how good of a job do you think the balance team was doing, and how difficult was the game to balance? I'd say the answers were "crap job" and "fairly easy."

The list of things they got wrong, didn't address, still haven't addressed, etc. is a pretty long one, and again I'm just stating the obvious. What's so hard about balancing the su76? What about the wehr flame halftrack? The unit is an absurd, pathetic joke and anyone with half a brain knows it.

There were many unintended consequences such as the Kubelwagen being viciously strong

Kubel was 100% joke when the game came out and needed buffs. It got buffed but allies cried so it got re-nerfed. Now it is useless again, and OKW is again left without any non-doctrinal HMG.

All OKW support weapons are either non-existent (sniper, flamethrower, mortar, HMG), suck (ISG), are too expensive for what they provide (infrared ht), or are too inefficient to be used as any reliable counter (stuka).

Having said all of that, No matter which side of the issue anyone is on (allies/axis), I don't think any of these things are hard to balance. Kubel could have been adjusted and swapped with MG34 (i.e. made doctrinal) - in fact I suggested this very thing on relic forums when game shipped; ISG can be buffed and have price reduced; etc. etc. etc.

100 percent muni income affecting team games

Again, an easy, no-brainer to fix. And again, I suggested that fix on relic forums: simply adjust downwards the amount of income OKW receives from wehr caches. But what did relic do? Adjust the entire munitions income downward for all game modes.

In closing, the OKW's mechanics make it extreme hard to balance the game....

Do the players believe the OKW are a main cause for many of the game's balance issues?

OKW mechanics in no way make it hard to balance the game, and OKW is in no way the main cause for many of the game's balance issues. The problem is that there is no balance team.

OKW i think doesnt represent germanys situation during 1944

Wehr should get larger squad sizes

OKW squads should be smaller (It makes no sense that fussies are 6man units)

Volks should be 4 men while grens should be 5

Also OKW support weapons suck.

So they mass infantry

To be fair. USF can blob rifles hard and mass mediums tanks when done correctly.

But in generall i disagree, OKW itself isnt OP

Specific units need looking at

Ex: Stuka, Obers, shrek accuracy,

And they need a greater reliance on team weapons

Buff reketen and infantry support gun

THIS. That's not about being simply OP, the thing is your best chance for easy win is blob volks--> blob Ubers ---> bring in panther. You don't have a lot of options despite having a lot of units, specially in 1v1 and 2v2. It's broken, not only OP. If they simply nerf Ubers and Volks you can't win, and at the current state without Ubers and Volks blobs it's hard to win.

Is OKW Blobing really a must to win or maybe it is the Lazy and easy choice?

Is OKW Blobing really a must to win or maybe it is the Lazy and easy choice?

It's easier of course. But if your opponent is good their only vulnerability is blobbing. So basically it's not a "must" but it's really hard, well at least for me.

Is OKW Blobing really a must to win or maybe it is the Lazy and easy choice?

Play and see for yourself.

They are "most powerful tanks in the game" in name only. It's purely thematic, and I never build them ever. King tiger is so ridiculously slow and the turret traverse so slow that it might as well be a glorified tank destroyer. Jagtiger can sit in one place on the map behind buildings or trees, protected by a blob of ATG, and that's all. Sturmtiger is a joke, etc. All of this stuff came out of the box pre-nerfed and useless.



None of this stuff in-game is difficult to balance. The balance team simply doesn't know what it is doing, doesn't care, is lazy, or doesn't have the resources/time to sit down and balance the game. I'm not flaming relic just for the sake of flaming them, I am simply stating the obvious.

Even before OKW/USA hit the field, how good of a job do you think the balance team was doing, and how difficult was the game to balance? I'd say the answers were "crap job" and "fairly easy."

The list of things they got wrong, didn't address, still haven't addressed, etc. is a pretty long one, and again I'm just stating the obvious. What's so hard about balancing the su76? What about the wehr flame halftrack? The unit is an absurd, pathetic joke and anyone with half a brain knows it.



Kubel was 100% joke when the game came out and needed buffs. It got buffed but allies cried so it got re-nerfed. Now it is useless again, and OKW is again left without any non-doctrinal HMG.

All OKW support weapons are either non-existent (sniper, flamethrower, mortar, HMG), suck (ISG), are too expensive for what they provide (infrared ht), or are too inefficient to be used as any reliable counter (stuka).

Having said all of that, No matter which side of the issue anyone is on (allies/axis), I don't think any of these things are hard to balance. Kubel could have been adjusted and swapped with MG34 (i.e. made doctrinal) - in fact I suggested this very thing on relic forums when game shipped; ISG can be buffed and have price reduced; etc. etc. etc.



Again, an easy, no-brainer to fix. And again, I suggested that fix on relic forums: simply adjust downwards the amount of income OKW receives from wehr caches. But what did relic do? Adjust the entire munitions income downward for all game modes.



OKW mechanics in no way make it hard to balance the game, and OKW is in no way the main cause for many of the game's balance issues. The problem is that there is no balance team.

+1. The "blame OKW" is getting out of hand these days.

Remember that a Shreck nerf also directly hits Ostheer which only recently got the Pak 40 nerfed...

That's actually not true - OKW's schreck is a different weapon (game files wise) than Ostheer's, so nothing stops Relic to change one and not the other.

Play and see for yourself.

Sad thing is as you can see my playercard i play mostly USF, beacuse i lack time for Coh 2 and when i do find free time i play with friends and that is 3x USF, but i will try to play more OKW just to show that you can play without Blobing.

Right now okw. sviets and usf are well balanced.some units need minor tweaking the support gun su76 and zooka need some buffs. but overall they do fine. the ostheer is the only faction thats not fine in 1vs1 or 4vs4. in 1 vs 1 they suffer from the expensive tech and rather up units like 222 p4 , stug and brumbar.

in 4 vs 4 the ost with supply doctrine can supercharge the okw economy to breaking point. simply reducing the okw income from cache would suffice.

People complain often about the okw because they are resistant to cheesy tactics of the soviets and usf. m20 or track rush : puma (what does the ost have)? maxim spam : luchs and obers (what does the ost have?) snipers and m3 : flack track (what does the ost have?)

Waiting until you have enough cp's for call ins? not going to work obers and the luchs are going to tear you a new one. you still managed to get them? well their impact is significantly lower because of volk shreks(and the only reason why so many people want to nerf shreks).

Sad thing is as you can see my playercard i play mostly USF, beacuse i lack time for Coh 2 and when i do find free time i play with friends and that is 3x USF, but i will try to play more OKW just to show that you can play without Blobing.

Great. I don't know what your definition of blobbing is but if you do get across having a decent winrate without getting more than 1 of each unit than please post and share us your findings!

Long story short: no.

+1 sir

That's actually not true - OKW's schreck is a different weapon (game files wise) than Ostheer's, so nothing stops Relic to change one and not the other.

And why would shrecks need a nerf!? What is OKW suppose to use as their standard AT if they do get a nerf? The Rankenlol? The single tank that they can field all game? While both russians and USF bring 3+ tanks to the game. Good plan bro.........

And why would shrecks need a nerf!? What is OKW suppose to use as their standard AT if they do get a nerf? The Rankenlol? The single tank that they can field all game? While both russians and USF bring 3+ tanks to the game. Good plan bro.........

Sorry, could you not put words in my mouth?

I never said they should nerf schrecks or not. I just said that nerfing schrecks for OKW doesn't mean the Ostheer's schrecks would be nerfed too.

I just don't get non-doc KT. It's broken for me.

I see a lot of complaint about lack of medium tank. Why don't switch King Tiger with doctrinal Pz4?
290 MP, 90 F and avaible since 2 converted trucks or since third truck hits the field or 7min cooldown since second truck (or something like that).
Non doctrinal King Tiger is just ridiculous. You don't have to bother with doctrines since you always have great heavy tank. This may also help vs T34/Sherman spam.
If Soviets have IS-2 avaible since 3 of 4 building are made, this would make almost all commanders usefull and just give a fuck about enemy's doctrine.
I think commanders have a purpose and non-doc KT break this rule.

Obers without upgrade are the problem as well. 90muni or make it free since 1 vet.

Base design. It's unfair that OKW can rush to your base with Luchs and wipe everything while OKW base is defended by flaks which deny rushing like that.

Tier design.
Ostheer has universal tier but it's OK since you can't choose like rest factions but OKW...

As USF you have to decide if you want AI tier with little AT or AT tier with little AI. Soviets are similar. Mobile AI tier or stationary AI/AT tier.

What about OKW? All tiers have great AI and AT units so you don't need to decide which tier to go based on enemy's choice. Most of the time USF ans Sov have to adapt to OKW tier. Situation where OKW has to do that are very rare.

Schrecks. Give them to Strompios. No more 5vet Volks blob facing tank at front and winning. Instead give them upgrade for some SMGs and since vet 2-3 Panzerfaust maybe.

OKW units are just superior to their USF or Sov equivalent.
From desing OKW should have weak early-game and powerful late-game. Right now OKW has powerful late-game and very stron early-game cause of Kubel+Strompio+Volks with schrecks.

Waiting until you have enough cp's for call ins? not going to work obers and the luchs are going to tear you a new one. you still managed to get them? well their impact is significantly lower because of volk shreks(and the only reason why so many people want to nerf shreks).

I personally think it's quite the opposite actually. I believe volk schreck blobs are one of the major contributing factors to call-in meta. You wait till the call-ins because non-doctrinal soviet tanks can't stand against volks blob. Call-in tanks are more durable and have better anti-infantry capabilities, no point in trying to keep them at bay with T34s when one volley forces it to retreat and repair. For infantry, all you can do is to get shocks, spam snipers or spam maxims because Soviet combined arms turns obsolete very quickly against OKW.

Give shreks to stormpios
Buff raketen to compensate
Nerf Obers

There you go, OKW fixed

I think the Soviets are the root of all 'evil'. Seriously. Because the faction as a whole is just a massive bottle of Failsauce lathered upon a pile of Failcustard, set nicely beside some Failsteak, half of the balance changes around here (here being CoH2 ^^) are to keep the Soviets alive.

Let me esplain. I hate cheesing. HATE. I was a lame-O Ami SIS strat user back in the vCoH circuit; I like me infantry. Lots. The Soviets, at first glance, should be great. Their whole MO in reality was "yees, giant blob of infantry very stronk comrade!". Well, no, not in CoH2. The Soviets, as it has been said time and again, rely on pure cheese to do anything. For people like me who try to play with Cons, Maxims, ZiS guns, HTs, T-34s, and SU-85s with a light, very light, sprinkle of doctrinal support, we get rolled over. I would venture so far as to say that the Soviets are an "abuse or lose" faction. They shouldn't be; that should never be the premise of a faction.

nerf everything

sure...

This makes holding territory considerably less important for OKW than other factions. That's why rushing straight for an enemy cutoff at the start of a game rather than back-capping is so effective.

That's where the big error is in my opinion. In a game that is almost entirely about capturing and holding territory, one faction doesn't actually need to capture and hold territory as badly as the others.

no offense but this is horribly wrong. the reason why rushing the cutoff works is because it almost negates the fuel and munition penalty that the OKW have, at least in the beginning of the game. the okw player vs allied player have equal resource gain since both sides have no territory, and if that continues the okw player will probably end up on top

in an even game however its pretty important for OKW to absolutely maintain control over ATLEAST one fuel and one munitions (not as important) for the entire game. losing fuel points or even multiple strategic points for an extended period of time is a HUGE blow to the timing of every OKW unit. not even just losing, but your fuel being harasses or cut off continuously can have just a bad an effect.

if you apply pressure early enough, you will delay the schwerer HQ, which in turn delays the luchs/obers, which in turn gives you more time to gain EVEN MORE map control before OKW elite units arrive. not only does it delay OKW units, but it speeds up your own teching as well. tanks might come a minute or two minutes earlier, and if the OKW player doesnt have sufficient AT, well then good game i guess.

having early munition control and maintaining it assures that the feared shrek blob will be delayed for quite awhile. 90 munitions is a pretty hefty investment. once again, not only is the OKW player losing a huge chunk of their economy, which is worse because of the penalties, but the allied player is gaining all those munitions themselves. Wether they save for BARS, molotovs, nades, etc or for late game offmaps, it still gives them an edge over an already weakened enemy.