Ostheer Teching: Inefficient vs USF?

Relic could actually do something with flameHalftrack too. It would help a lot

Relic could actually do something with flameHalftrack too. It would help a lot

unlock the flame upgrade from BP2 to BP1 would be cool

There's nothing wrong with teching, the issue is just how calls ins such as Tigers are just always t he better option. Same for IS-2's and T-34/85's as Soviets.

Moreover - 222 has big size( the model itself) and slow vehicle rotation. The root of its stupidity pathing I believe.

So if Relic would change its armor, size and vehicle rotation Ostheer had a threat to USrifles.

It has the same target size as the Soviet Scout car. Adjusting the target size would make no difference against small arms, even the kubel (smallest size in the game at 10) has a 100% chance to be hit by small arms at all ranges.

As for rotation, 222 has the fastest vehicle rotation in the game at 50

There's nothing wrong with teching, the issue is just how calls ins such as Tigers are just always t he better option. Same for IS-2's and T-34/85's as Soviets.

I don't think that's the worst issue. If Ost can survive and reach PIVs and StuGs, they are usually in a good spot vs USF, but the early game teching is crippling as it's a necessity against USF. You need that early 222/Pak to help deal with the USF light vehicle rush, but at the same time, Ostheer tech (Soviets as well) gets you absolutely nothing compared to the WFA. Furthermore, you spend the most MP for no initial gain limiting the number of units you need to properly fight vs USF. That extra 120MP is pretty important in the early game, especially if you've been taking casualties on grenadier squads. That could be the difference between getting your Pak out half a minute earlier before the USF make their push into the cut-off.

Worse, Ostheer teching will always be later than the USF as the pioneers need to return to base and delays the necessary counters reaching the field at a point in the game where losing the cut-off can pretty much be a game ender as armour's going to hit the field before you can an appropriate mobile counter as the USF taking your fuel income away is crippling when they can be well on their way to a Sherman as they've had more map control over the course of the game.

Pushing the Tiger back isn't going to help the situation where Ostheer can't effectively hold onto the cut-off within the first 4-5 minutes of the game which is not aided by certain maps that make a proper defense difficult against the M-20/Rifle/and LT push as you can effectively spot them before they hit you due to the LOS blockers or there's 3-4 different angles they can hit from to help nullify MGs which is generally only a single one.

I don't think that's the worst issue. If Ost can survive and reach PIVs and StuGs, they are usually in a good spot vs USF, but the early game teching is crippling as it's a necessity against USF. You need that early 222/Pak to help deal with the USF light vehicle rush, but at the same time, Ostheer tech (Soviets as well) gets you absolutely nothing compared to the WFA. Furthermore, you spend the most MP for no initial gain limiting the number of units you need to properly fight vs USF. That extra 120MP is pretty important in the early game, especially if you've been taking casualties on grenadier squads. That could be the difference between getting your Pak out half a minute earlier before the USF make their push into the cut-off.

Worse, Ostheer teching will always be later than the USF as the pioneers need to return to base and delays the necessary counters reaching the field at a point in the game where losing the cut-off can pretty much be a game ender as armour's going to hit the field before you can an appropriate mobile counter as the USF taking your fuel income away is crippling when they can be well on their way to a Sherman as they've had more map control over the course of the game.

Pushing the Tiger back isn't going to help the situation where Ostheer can't effectively hold onto the cut-off within the first 4-5 minutes of the game which is not aided by certain maps that make a proper defense difficult against the M-20/Rifle/and LT push as you can effectively spot them before they hit you due to the LOS blockers or there's 3-4 different angles they can hit from to help nullify MGs which is generally only a single one.

This.The manpower needed in teching and building t2 to counter us light vehicle is unaffordable when they get free lieutenant plus Op rifles vis a vis grenadiers and lame mg 42.The damp 222 can't counter the aa halftrack,the pak isn't what it used to be -aa halftrack now can get away even if ambushed ,going shrecks on pzgrens means no lmgs.And tiger is still more efficient than panther teching.Ostheer teching is main reason of its weakness.

ostheer are heavily undepeforming, allied (primary us forces) fanboys are too antsy about their precious "EARLY GAME ADV." cuz of their real life based inferior armor not being able to scale late game with raw german strength. im sorry but if anybody thinks ANY sherman can 1v1 a panther, tiger, etc... WTF is wrong w/ u

Problem is that making ostheer tech cheaper would fuck up the soviet vs ostheer, while only balance out USF.


I say the maps and the USF teching needs to be adjusted.


Something is seriously out of wack when comparing the old factions to the new ones, i mean old factions barely get anything for teching, while both USF and OKW get huge advantages for teching.

They also have simmilary out of wack infantry units that just destroy all the other factions infantry.

Compare PGs and Airborne (both of which cost around the same while PG being slightly more expensive) to maintain

Gaurds and Obersoldaten (Obers being just 70mp more expensive but gaurds requiring 75 muni upgrade)

Compare these infantry units and how the WFA faction elite infantry just smash the old factions elite infantry without any doubt. Something is wrong here IMO.

Theres alot of WFA faction stuff that needs to be nerfed to eastern front faction level IMO.

Or the other way around, i'm not sure.

AFAIK, Ostheer do not have Elite Infantry. They have no answer to Shock Troops, or Parras. PG's are nowhere near in the same class and quite simply melt when trying to tackle either shocks or parras. Ostheer's only hope is to blob their grens with G43 or LMG and hope the other player fucks up.

What is the go with 2 CP Shock Troops anyway? I mean, they come way too quickly and are far too cheap for what they are. IMO.

Ostheer infantry is miserable.Mg 42 is lacklustre.Pzgrens still hugely overpriced for performance.And grens can't stand upto Rifles or airborne or shocks.Its a humiliating situation where u are basically guaranteed to lose every meeting engagement or mobile infantry battle that doesn't involve ur enemy charging into a well prepared defense of mg 42 or grens behind green cover at range.
This long range speciality of grens is balls,because enemy can close distance with ease.The only way to actually make this long range thing work is to increase range of kar98k,so this long range mechanic can actually have some use as the enemy will take longer to close and grens can have more chance vs rifles.Soviet conscripts can also be given a concurrent range increase to keep it in balance and buff this unit in general.

@miragefla - as much as I admire you as a player I have to disagree. USF it's not in a good spot right now and the last thing it needs would be a nerf of any kind. I am not saying ostheer it's at their best, but USF is worst.
Most probably both factions need some work to make them keep the pace with the other 2.

You know what is the biggest difference between USF and Ostheer? Ostheer involves alot of pain in early game and you need extra work to reach late game in a good shape. But once you do, you have a good chance to win. USF involves also alot of work to dominate early and middle game, but once you reach late game in a good shape you are not rewarded, on the contrary, you get crushed by Axis heavy armor with a very little chance to hold on your VP and finally win.

@miragefla - as much as I admire you as a player I have to disagree. USF it's not in a good spot right now and the last thing it needs would be a nerf of any kind. I am not saying ostheer it's at their best, but USF is worst.
Most probably both factions need some work to make them keep the pace with the other 2.

You know what is the biggest difference between USF and Ostheer? Ostheer involves alot of pain in early game and you need extra work to reach late game in a good shape. But once you do, you have a good chance to win. USF involves also alot of work to dominate early and middle game, but once you reach late game in a good shape you are not rewarded, on the contrary, you get crushed by Axis heavy armor with a very little chance to hold on your VP and finally win.

Then change Ostheer's tech costs in MP/Fuel instead so that it's easier to hold off and more rewarding rather than being this thing which is punishing Ostheer vs USF rather than benefiting them at a time when they need these T2 units ASAP. That's not really a nerf for USF, it just makes it harder to push Ostheer off the field completely as they can actually get an appropriate response on the field in time before the attack hits.

How you'd nerf the late-game to compensate is beyond me since issues such as heavy call-ins, smoke, and blitz and giving USF a penetration boost to the Jackson's stock shells to help vs heavies. Against Ost defense lines that may give USF issues, smoke.

They really need to reduce T2 and T4 upgrade cost/build cost/build time... way too much for very little.

reduce the cost of p2/t2. shift the cost onto p3 if needed. reduce the cost of t3 and p4/t4.

I just want to say, US AA track is so effective at Anti-infantry and Anti-air while 251 halftrack is so usless.

Why 251 halftrack needs T2 tech and 120 munitions to unlock flamethrower while US AA track needs nothing? How long time have you not seen a 251 FHT?

And the 222,it needs some HP buff,I think 240 HP is ok.

Then change Ostheer's tech costs in MP/Fuel instead so that it's easier to hold off and more rewarding rather than being this thing which is punishing Ostheer vs USF rather than benefiting them at a time when they need these T2 units ASAP. That's not really a nerf for USF, it just makes it harder to push Ostheer off the field completely as they can actually get an appropriate response on the field in time before the attack hits.

How you'd nerf the late-game to compensate is beyond me since issues such as heavy call-ins, smoke, and blitz and giving USF a penetration boost to the Jackson's stock shells to help vs heavies. Against Ost defense lines that may give USF issues, smoke.

I agree. Ostheers early game is weak unless you mix in Snipers or Mortars. But Snipers are high risk and Mortars are RNG. Both of them Bleed USF early and USF has no early response to them. But even then its not ideal imho.

I agree with the Jackson Penetration buff I really think this would fix the late game issue USF has against heavies. It it can Pen more then it bounces then it can get vet quicker and therefore be a better TD. Even if they need to lower the damage per shot and make the reload faster.

Tackling an Ostheer defensive line is easier with the USF by far then with the Soviets due to plenty of smoke/offmaps and the Scott actually being useful.

But then the Soviets would need to be looked at as well (after the fix to world of callins).

These huge teching nerfs were imposed on ostheer like a year ago before the faction got overall nerf,but then these were not reversed..leading to current dismal situation.But as usual no one cares abt ostheer which is actually the most sane faction around -less cheese than soviet..less blob than OKW/USF and for this reason its punished with impunity.

Vs USF I never teching more than Tier 2 before realy late game coz all vehicles would meet sudden death from quantity and mines you can never save it as USF does.Only if you were able to withstand up to late game you may try

Relic could actually do something with flameHalftrack too. It would help a lot

Relic could do something about like half of the Ostheer roster, but they won't, they had a lot of time for that already... nevermind the huge amount of old commanders that exists and will never get balanced anymore.

Ostheer has been the weakest faction for long long time,as everyone know. So many usless units and what a shit the high tech cost is.

Just make the BP1 tech-updating more cheaper, just make 251 FHT usefull again. Look at US force. How usefull the M20 and AA halftrack are! The 251's flamethrower updating cost (120 munitions) already limits this unit's performence. Soviet fanboys dont complain, just think about what ostheer can do when they are facing US AA halftrack. That's the same situation. And the AA halftrack dont cost munitions.

And the 222, more HP pls, 240 is ok, the same as the M20. No more.

The ostheer tech cost really needs to be look at. 4 men size squard already makes this faction hard to play, so do something pls RELIC. I like this faction but now I dont want to play as ostheer. OKW is so good while ost is so unplayable.

i thought they reduced the cost of the flamers to 90? still an expensive, crappy unit though.