PPSH upgrade for conscripts is a downgrade

yeah and units fire lmgs on the move lol

I always make some "Assault" conscript force for flanks and don't upgrade all cons for some long-range combat.

The PPSH's are fine if you know how to use them. A lot of people apparently think the PPSH is an assault rifle and thus should be exceptionally good at both medium and short range. If you get in close to the enemy by flanking and using tactical manoeuvres then the PPSh's do good damage.

It basically comes down to people not using them correctly.

So, vannila conscripts are actually very good.

They easily beat grens and volks in a 1v1 situation, and with a little micro beat sturmpios with ease. With good micro and molotovs they can even beat LMG grens.


However, the PPSH upgrade is supposed to make conscripts even more epic....

Except that it makes them worse. The PPSH has the lowest damage out of all smgs (except vehicle crews and pioneer SMG) and due to the high fragility of concripts which means that they need to be in cover 100% of the time, makes this upgrade a complete downgrade.

Now i do not want the PPSH to be insane, but when looking at its german equivalent, the G43 , which increases your close range DPS just slightly less than PPSH conscripts, but considerably increases your mid range and slightly increases your long range DPS, while PPSH conscripts only increase the DPS at close range, and drastically decreases and mid and long range.


My proposed change is to give PPSH upgrade conscripts some kind of armor, say 1.1 or maybe 1.15 armor to make it slightly easier for them to close in.

Good observation I have been thinking although I wouldnt call it a complete downgrade ppsh do rock in the right situations i.e. you got to be in close.. if you can ambush its great but yeah I used to upgrade all my cons with ppsh now I realized thats dangerous and now only do 1 or to and those become my flankers. I have also felt that shocks are too expensive for what they do and also at their price they are rediculously underperforming do to the same factors.

Good observation I have been thinking although I wouldnt call it a complete downgrade ppsh do rock in the right situations i.e. you got to be in close.. if you can ambush its great but yeah I used to upgrade all my cons with ppsh now I realized thats dangerous and now only do 1 or to and those become my flankers. I have also felt that shocks are too expensive for what they do and also at their price they are rediculously underperforming do to the same factors.

I disagree, shocks are absolute monsters. They will wreck obers, mgs, pgs, w/e. Throw smoke at every engagement, stick the barrel down their throats, roll face. Shocks are by far the best performing soviet infantry and are certainly worth their cost.

The PPSH's are fine if you know how to use them. A lot of people apparently think the PPSH is an assault rifle and thus should be exceptionally good at both medium and short range. If you get in close to the enemy by flanking and using tactical manoeuvres then the PPSh's do good damage.

It basically comes down to people not using them correctly.

um.... i am pretty sure everyone is using them at close range

Apparently not if people are complaining the PPSh's are a downgrade. They do good damage at close range so it actually does come down to a learn to play matter.

The PPSH's can be considered a downgrade if you try to use the PPSH's to win long or medium range engagements though.

Reality has no basis here. Fallschirms in CoH 2 use their FG42s in full auto, even though it was completely unusable in that setting

You have a point there. If Fallschirmjaegers can fire their FG42s like miniguns Relic might as well give an uber assault rifle for Soviets as well.
But that of course is not the subject of the thread. Does the game data at least give the same weapons used by Shock troops to conscripts when using this upgrade? The lack of armour and assault grenades already makes SMG-armed conscripts a rather trivial upgrade: if all factors besides damage output at short range are eliminated, Conscripts SHOULD perform much like Shock Troops in that regard.

But if not, well, I'm not surprised it's not fixed yet.

Yep vet 3 vanilla cons seem to get AIMBOTS occasionally, and beat even LMG grens and shooting down retreating units, but sometimes they cant hit anything

In other words, RNG

Is the conscript PPSH upgrade really worth being doctrinal? Compared to every single stock upgrade that Relic has given every other faction?

The PPSH's are fine if you know how to use them. A lot of people apparently think the PPSH is an assault rifle and thus should be exceptionally good at both medium and short range.

You are the first person I have ever seen saying that...
I'll take it that you speak for yourself as no one else ever said that.

If you get in close to the enemy by flanking and using tactical manoeuvres then the PPSh's do good damage.

It basically comes down to people not using them correctly.

That is the only problem people have with it.
Axis long range firepower almost guarantees its impossible to close up and be in shape to win engagement.

And recent rec acc change doesn't help with that.

@braciszek
Not really, but it allows cons to somewhat scale and we don't want that.

Reality has no basis here. Fallschirms in CoH 2 use their FG42s in full auto, even though it was completely unusable in that setting

Even then, there's the fact that it still mag-dumped in a second, which means it'll spend far more time being reloaded or in-between bursts, than actually shooting. Even if it is accurate in automatic fire, the reload would restrict it from being useful like the BAR or FG 42 which have larger magazines and slower rate of fire.

And more importantly, they were not officially used after 1943. The ones technically still in service were only used semi-automatically. That means you would be adding something that shouldn't be there, and Relic tries to keep it to things that were actually used in the time-frame they base their armies on.

Nevermind that this is all completely irrelevant, a PPSh can be scripted as a long range semi-auto, and a Mosin can be scripted to work as an LMG. There isn't some magical barrier that prevents them from doing these things without adding questionable weaponry. If they want slightly better mid-range firepower, than can just fix up the PPSh to do that. And imo they should, just raise the DPS at mid-long just enough to be more in line with their other rifles.