BALANCE FEEDBACK - USF 1v1 Post 100 Games of Automatch

Problem with OSTH 1v1 is how campy it gets. The entire game is about the USF forcing his way through a mega camp of MGs + ATs + Grens + Mortars. Even their P4s and eventual Tigers arent used as 'Tanks' rather much more semi-mobile immortal units of death, sitting behind passive camps that require MINIMAL micro.

- MG planted with arc covering sector, check
- AT gun just behind the MG covering the entry point, check
- Mortar behind the AT, bombarding any attempts to flip VP/Fuel/Ammo, check
- 1-2 Grens, now with LMGs, to rip charging/flanking infantry, along with insta engine hit fausts, check
- P4s or CP based Tiger/Panther, sitting behind it all, check

In any other RTS, you would be labelled a mega-trash newb for camping like 99% Osth players do in 1v1s. Just squat on 1 fuel/ammo/VP with 4 units, then send the blob to take the other. GG.

You lose cause youre bad, you win cause youre a camping git and the game isnt balanced - Fact

I see Ostheer far from problematic atm, even for USF. OKW it's another storry but still, I think an USF fix would fix also the balance (hoping of course that Relic won't extra-buff this faction, transforming it into 10 minutes mark win guarantee).

Thinking at USF fixing I would dare to propose as a distinct feature, one extra ability for RE which will relay in building a 90 mm AA emplacement reinforced with sandbags, that is good against planes and decent against armor. This way USF will gain an extra help against Axis armor and will represent a threat for Stuka skillplane. This RE ability should be unlocked at 2 or 3 Vet level while price is to be established. So it will not come easy for USF player, which will be obliged to pay attention at its RE in order to keep them in game and scaling them in vet so that they can build such an emplacement. No vet 2 (or 3) RE, no emplacement. Being a veterancy unlock, it will take a while untill USF player will be able to build such a thing, and he will probably be able to build it when the Axis thick armor will appear in scene (P4, Panthers).

Problem with OSTH 1v1 is how campy it gets. The entire game is about the USF forcing his way through a mega camp of MGs + ATs + Grens + Mortars. Even their P4s and eventual Tigers arent used as 'Tanks' rather much more semi-mobile immortal units of death, sitting behind passive camps that require MINIMAL micro.

- MG planted with arc covering sector, check
- AT gun just behind the MG covering the entry point, check
- Mortar behind the AT, bombarding any attempts to flip VP/Fuel/Ammo, check
- 1-2 Grens, now with LMGs, to rip charging/flanking infantry, along with insta engine hit fausts, check
- P4s or CP based Tiger/Panther, sitting behind it all, check

In any other RTS, you would be labelled a mega-trash newb for camping like 99% Osth players do in 1v1s. Just squat on 1 fuel/ammo/VP with 4 units, then send the blob to take the other. GG.

You lose cause youre bad, you win cause youre a camping git and the game isnt balanced - Fact

Hominf Rifle AT nades? Rfile AT Nades are the easiet ones to dodge.

I would switch HMG with AT Gun.

If you go Captian you can get AT Gun, useless howi and shitty Stuart.
If you Lieutenant you have nice HMG, great M20 and Great Halftrack.

It looks little unbalanced...

Halftrack can counter Luchs BUT early M20 is key. You just need it. Taking M20 denies Halftrack (we want go for Major for something heavy) and it this time gap between M20 - Sherman Luchs can totaly destroy everything.
Sure, you can go for Cpt, At Gun and Stuart, but Stuars will be easliy countered by Schrecks or Puma, At gun has be placed perfectly because Luchs is so fast and so durable that it can get behind very easy.

Of course, you can also go for Airborne to drop AT, upgrade bazooka but using only 1 commander (which already happens) is not what we want or wasting fuel for bazooka that will be useless vs Luchs supported by Volks and Stormpios.

US Forces need Pershing. Not because it's powerful, heavy etc. but because USF need something else to deal with the heaviest units. 90% games you see only Airborne.If you won't go for P47 + Jackson you are done in most cases.

I remember crying about E8 that USF will only use this doctrine cause of E8 etc etc... How many E8 can you see? And how many P47?

US Forces are the worst designed faction.

Semois....OKW map...?

Please.

Either your cap orders are wrong or do not know where to place fighting positions.

give rifles some buildable green cover, non doctrinal.

for 280mp, they match volks at range, arent more durable than volks, need research for scaling upgrades and nades and cannot build defensive structures!

or defensive buffs are vet 1.

or a 6th man.

The only thing i dont like about USF is their AT capabilities. USF can handle the light vehicles, the medium tanks, and even the enemy elite's infantry if USF micros LMG wielding stuff well enough, but once the panthers, Tigers, and King Tigers roll out, then USF can only cower. USF has to spend boatloads of munitions, manpower, and fuel that oftentimes ends up being much more expensive than the armor the enemy has called in. Micro-ing units only goes so far until you start falling apart. Once you start your AT investments, then suddenly you have to balance your AT and AI capabilities, and falling behind in one department makes you fail in the other, as eventually your forces get crushed. When AP rounds bounce off of a tank when using a high vet Jackson or AT gun,... You feel like you want to cry. Also, bazookas are... Pretty WORTHLESS when it comes to anything with at least 200 frontal armor. Fortunately, schrecks 100% penetrate all your armor at max range, so you can feel even more bad about not winning when you had the chance early game. USF has... For me, the best early game with great stuff that pushes Axis back, but then your enemy calls in the big guns and better infantry, you look around for your own badass tanks, but find none at your disposal .

USF vs. Ostheer is... Certainly much better than USF vs OKW. I dont think USF needs to be any better vs. ostheer, so i would call a lot of the complaints a problem with OKW.

youtube vid

In before "flank noob"

You saw how much HP Panther had?

He tried to flank but the Panther is faster then M36 Jackson.

Problem with OSTH 1v1 is how campy it gets. The entire game is about the USF forcing his way through a mega camp of MGs + ATs + Grens + Mortars. Even their P4s and eventual Tigers arent used as 'Tanks' rather much more semi-mobile immortal units of death, sitting behind passive camps that require MINIMAL micro.

- MG planted with arc covering sector, check
- AT gun just behind the MG covering the entry point, check
- Mortar behind the AT, bombarding any attempts to flip VP/Fuel/Ammo, check
- 1-2 Grens, now with LMGs, to rip charging/flanking infantry, along with insta engine hit fausts, check
- P4s or CP based Tiger/Panther, sitting behind it all, check

In any other RTS, you would be labelled a mega-trash newb for camping like 99% Osth players do in 1v1s. Just squat on 1 fuel/ammo/VP with 4 units, then send the blob to take the other. GG.

You lose cause youre bad, you win cause youre a camping git and the game isnt balanced - Fact

Then this isn't the RTS for you cleary, go play starcraft?


No but seriously, oshteer gets raped hard, like rage-quit tier in the first 10 - 15 minutes vs usf, and as it was pointed out before, go play axis, let's see how well you do with them.

In before "flank noob"

That's some very unlucky RNG and the jackson was used wrong. Should have reversed to max range to outrange the panther.

Some pretty absurd stuff. Semois, impossible to win vs Ostheer of all factions? If anything, its the other way around. Park your rifles on houses on cutoff (he cant dislodge you), aggressively harass his fuel with M20/AAA HT/Greyhound, rush dat Sherman, gg. You have superior infantry, you have impact units, you should have superior mapcontrol. Most of the time its really that easy.

In Semois, It is really important to control mid and next side cutoff points - which is not difficult if you control the mid.
The common error is to try to cap 1 side in the first 2-4 minutes = you are losing a lot of time since the munition takes age to cap and a squad not engaged in the fight.

You lose cause youre bad, you win cause youre a camping git and the game isnt balanced - Fact

Ostheer's not really camping if they have to fight constant aggression preventing them from moving out. And none of their start non-doctrine units are particularly good alone or at attacking positions either either due to small squad sizes or being a support weapon, especially in the early game. US has the tools to break the camp in the form of smoke, early light vehicle rush and general map control early on not to mention a lot of maps make it difficult for Ostheer simply because of they are narrow and have plenty of flanking routes/cover to advance towards the Ostheer line.

rifles need better vet

usf needs more doctrines with elite troops

*cough rangers cough*

I would love to see a heavy tank commander for those 4v4 fan boys

My win is still exactly 50%. That may be a fair measure of my skill and maybe im a 65-70% win player who is playing a disadvantaged faction.

1 - The auto match system will match you with better players such that you maintain a 50%ish win loss ratio. Until you join the upper echelon of 1v1 players (who have played over 100 games) do you see a 70% win ratio. I think we can all agree that the USF have a difficult late game, however; I do not think that your average win/loss ratio is due to the faction you are playing.

2 - I think you need to play 100 games with all factions before you have the perspective necessary to suggest appropriate balance changes.

Some would say it's not about the quantity, but the quality.

PD: you can get top100 with 10 games won.

OP, let me explain how it works.

The German army is slow, static, boring, creeping and is getting stronger how longer the game goes on.

You have the advantage though, the US can control the early game. When playing US you'll have to anticipate what your opponent does and react with counters accordenly. This mindset must be continued through all the game.

Let me further explain how the US works.

The US and the Axis have certain types of advantages.

US -> early strong game and you can react with soft counters to everything. I know what that sounds like, why don't US have any hard counters? That's because even if you have soft counters, your counters arrive earlier then his, thanks to your teching and early advantage.

The Axis on the other hand have hard counters to all your units, BUT which arrive later then your soft counters.

Let's say you play a 1 vs 1 game.

At the early game: You have the advantage. Let's pick a build most used; Fast tech to LT and getting a M20.

In that moment you have a soft counter to all his infantry on the field though when this happens you already have to think about the next phase. Tt forces your opponent to play differently and get a counter of his own. Remember Axis have hard counters for your units. Werh = Scout car OKW = Puma. The solution to this is laying mines or getting that extra RES with zooks on them.

When you have zooks you can soft/medium counter all light armor that Axis have, it once again gives you an advantage of map control and recources.

The great thing about early M20 is you don't spend alot of fuel so you can fast tech to major and get that sherman out. With this build you're really strong in the mid game. Though you'll have to prepare again to counter his incoming armor with Jacksons, which are of course soft counters to his armor.

The advantage the US has in between the phases of counters is VETERANCY, it helps you be a soft counter to units to hold out till your counter arrives.

When you play US like you're supposed to play and don't lose any squads/vehicles the Axis only tries to catch up with you. When the Axis finally gets hard counters for your entire army the VP's will drop to 0 and he will lose.
Except when he's got tiger ace, you can't counter that as US, only with mines.

I only use this strat in urban maps combined with Airborne btw, your para's counter his infantry when they arrive. Not really a fan of this in large maps. I can by the way make a guide for you with 2 builds from early to late game which work on urban maps and on large maps.

TLDR version:
The US has soft counters for everything the Axis has, it's used for PUSHING Axis away to get that map/VP control.

Dear Relic,

SO i made a semi-raging thread after my first 50 games. After some posts that im not proud of in hindsight, i took aboard the feedback from the thread and played another 50.

My win is still exactly 50%. That may be a fair measure of my skill and maybe im a 65-70% win player who is playing a disadvantaged faction.

I saw your question about the Stug, it has extremely low health, 4 zooks hit and it's gone.
It's highly flankable as well, it has no turret. Ask me any questions how to counter any Axis builds, probadly seen them all.

SO looney, your TLDR is that the game is balanced in 1v1 and USF is fine ...?