Jagdtiger

Well it's worse than the Elefant now.

+15 range
-slower (need upgrade first)
-more expensive (most expensive tank in game)
-harder to babysit, since you can't faust enemy medium tanks or hide it behind a wall of paks
-a loss is a devastating set back, while losing an Elefant is not that troublesome since you usually use it in synergy with p4s or panthers
-- can't spot for itself
-- commander can't counter b4
---- get's stunned by every shot

Only situation I could think of using it would be against 2-4 ISUs in team games. With the new min rage of the ISU I don't think even that is needed if you could use just 2 panthers for the same job.

It needs a price reduction and the stun removed, otherwise this unit is dead.

1. So it's not slower.
2. It would we wierd since it's the most powerful tank destoryer in game.
3. Wut? Go and try Jackson. 85 range deny any babysitting in fact. Volks+Schrecks, raketen, Panzerfuss have AT nade or sooething like that I belive.
4. It's really hard to lose it.
5. Synergy with Panthers? Are we still talking about 1v1? Because I dont think so, and if we are talking about 2v2 you can cover JT with Paks 40 or even 43.
6. Spot for 85 range? If you know there is something but you cant see it try to attack the ground.
7. It's obvious since Counter Attack commander is hard counter for JT. It's simple. You go JT, Soviet will go B-4. Soviets will go for ISU, you go for JT. You dont pick up doctrine in first seconds.
8. Stun? That's why you have 85 range. Keep them at distance.

Piercing shots got removed. That's a nerf to the Jagdtiger. A pretty significant one. To compensate that loss, a small rice reduction seems reasonable.

Your idea of making the concrete piercing round free with a longer cooldown seems fine to me as well. That would make any other change irrelevant.

Oh for the 347859173498672165 time!

You NERF unit because its OVERPOWERED.

You do NOT compensate for the NERF, because it would lead yet again to unit being OVERPOWERED for the COST and we'd be BACK AT STEP ONE.

This is why it is called a NERF and not STAT RELOCATION.

And to picture it better to you:

I don't remember Guard Rifles getting any cost reductions or compensations when button and PTRS were nerfed.

1. So it's not slower.
2. It would we wierd since it's the most powerful tank destoryer in game.
3. Wut? Go and try Jackson. 85 range deny any babysitting in fact. Volks+Schrecks, raketen, Panzerfuss have AT nade or sooething like that I belive.
4. It's really hard to lose it.
5. Synergy with Panthers? Are we still talking about 1v1? Because I dont think so, and if we are talking about 2v2 you can cover JT with Paks 40 or even 43.
6. Spot for 85 range? If you know there is something but you cant see it try to attack the ground.
7. It's obvious since Counter Attack commander is hard counter for JT. It's simple. You go JT, Soviet will go B-4. Soviets will go for ISU, you go for JT. You dont pick up doctrine in first seconds.
8. Stun? That's why you have 85 range. Keep them at distance.

1.A spotting scope is the better upgrade. It gives you a real benefit while the speed upgrade is a necessity /commodity to keep Jagdtiger useful.
3. Are all more unreliable than two paks or a gren squad near your tanks. Panzerfusiliers at grenade is the worst engine damage ability in game since it has a low range (you can just escape it) and doesn't activate everytime. Likewise raketenwerfer are much easier to focus down since they have a lower range (50) and no green cover. Using medium tanks that take out first the supportive AT and then eat the Jagdtiger is the common strategy.
4. if you play against noobs maybe
5.In random team games(most played modes) you can't rely on your mates, or you get double okw or whatever. However it's still possible to get 1 + Ele, or 2 p4s + Ele. It's quite common actually.
8.You can't use those 85 range because you can not spot with the jagdtiger. And having units in front that spot for you is not possible in late game (when the Jagdtiger hits the field) since they get easily wiped at that point.

6.Attack ground - seriously? Are we playing battleship? Revealing the position of your Jagdtiger is worse than hitting one of the 3 medium tanks that are around in a equal game.

Oh for the 347859173498672165 time!

You NERF unit because its OVERPOWERED.

You do NOT compensate for the NERF, because it would lead yet again to unit being OVERPOWERED for the COST and we'd be BACK AT STEP ONE.

This is why it is called a NERF and not STAT RELOCATION.

And to picture it better to you:

I don't remember Guard Rifles getting any cost reductions or compensations when button and PTRS were nerfed.

Nope, your picture is wrong.

"nerfing" something is not as simple as adding or subtracting.

You have to look at the entire context. Piercing Shot was indeed overpowered, so crew daze, fuel cost increase to 290, munition cost to perform at stock were all added. But no matter how many counterbalancing measures were introduced, it did not counterbalance anything. So they took out piercing shot - that means other counterbalancing measures need to go.

I dont remember Guards EVER getting a price increase, some sort of outlandish disease that renders it unable to perform its crucial role (in case of JT, a Tanking role), nor upgrade requirement just for it to perform at stock levels.

If Guard required a PTRS upgrade, then button and PTRS was nerfed, THEN we can compare it to the Jagdtiger ATM.

FFS...it is still a beast in open areas. It will now have disadvantages in heavily wooded or urban areas just like any casemate style tank. Positioning is key, or simply, don't pick that doctrine at all. Not all doctrines will fit the same battlefield or situation.

FFS...it is still a beast in open areas. It will now have disadvantages in heavily wooded or urban areas just like any casemate style tank. Positioning is key, or simply, don't pick that doctrine at all. Not all doctrines will fit the same battlefield or situation.

Open or closed it rarely matters because OKW has no reliable spotting capability for the JT.

Send in spotters -> spotters get wiped -> JT alone without support = dead JT

Have units cover JT -> Nothing to spot for JT -> Enemy armor roams free and you lose map control = lost game

Actually your Panzerfüsiliers are your spotters. However having them spotting safely costs munitions.
Spotting for free with them is only possible when you vet them. However that still doesn't help you against a isu or any anti if tanks that come near them.

You can't use those 85 range because you can not spot with the jagdtiger. And having units in front that spot for you is not possible in late game (when the Jagdtiger hits the field) since they get easily wiped at that point.

What are Panzerfusiliers with 6 man squad, 50+ sight range after upgrade and flare ability good for? How about Vet 4+ Volks with about the same sight range? Don't bother to mention potential M8 scout squad wipes as that gets one shotted by JT which outranges it.

Various other OKW units have either great sight to begin with(Kubel/Puma) with or amazing sight upgrade with Vet(JP4/Panther/Ratken). You can also use IRHT in combination with attack ground. In a team game you can rely on OKW teammate's Artillery Flare/Command Panther or Ostheer vehicles with spotting scope.

Open or closed it rarely matters because OKW has no reliable spotting capability for the JT.

Send in spotters -> spotters get wiped -> JT alone without support = dead JT

Have units cover JT -> Nothing to spot for JT -> Enemy armor roams free and you lose map control = lost game

Best way is to send your infantry or any Panther forward, try not to blob the volks in case there is an ISU or to be a big target for artillery. Slowly creep the Jagdtiger forward and snipe the tanks that have revealed themselves trying to shoot your infantry. If this is 2v2 and up, it will be easier for buddies covering your sides or meatshield for you.

I agree that it is a pretty significant change,and it will take some time to adjust, but it was very OP imo before. It could snipe tanks while hiding out of view, offering very limited counterplay, especially with the amount of good units OKW and Ost have.

I am still skeptical about giving the Jagdtiger something to compensate for this nerf. The unit is still devastating in open areas (even without the obstacle-shooting ability), so adjusting costs and stats would make it even more difficult to deal with.

Best way is to send your infantry or any Panther forward, try not to blob the volks in case there is an ISU or to be a big target for artillery. Slowly creep the Jagdtiger forward and snipe the tanks that have revealed themselves trying to shoot your infantry. If this is 2v2 and up, it will be easier for buddies covering your sides or meatshield for you.

I agree that it is a pretty significant change,and it will take some time to adjust, but it was very OP imo before. It could snipe tanks while hiding out of view, offering very limited counterplay, especially with the amount of good units OKW and Ost have.

I am still skeptical about giving the Jagdtiger something to compensate for this nerf. The unit is still devastating in open areas (even without the obstacle-shooting ability), so adjusting costs and stats would make it even more difficult to deal with.

Are we even playing the same game? IT doens't matter volks are blobbed or not, the problem is ISU WIPING the goddamned entire squad whether multiple squads are blobbed or not. There is no way to manually spread out the models in a squad, I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "try not to blob the volks"

And Panther and JT on same game? How much fuel is that? I have never even seen it happen except for ROFLSTOMP games in 4v4s. In fact, with all the other units REQUIRED to cover JT's ass, I believe you will have popcap issues.

In most 1v1 games, there is barely enough fuel for OKW (considering the opponent is not a retard) to squeeze out a panther. If JT hits the field, it means the OKW has given up any other fuel-costing options other than the bare minimum to tech to T4 for anti-infantry capabilities.

Oh for the 347859173498672165 time!

You NERF unit because its OVERPOWERED.

You do NOT compensate for the NERF, because it would lead yet again to unit being OVERPOWERED for the COST and we'd be BACK AT STEP ONE.

This is why it is called a NERF and not STAT RELOCATION.

And to picture it better to you:

I don't remember Guard Rifles getting any cost reductions or compensations when button and PTRS were nerfed.

In case of the JT it's a bit tricky. The piercing rounds were the problem. Relic designed the JT as a 290 fuel unit that has this ability. Now, the whole ability was removed. Therefore, the JT has to lose a bit of its fuel price because it just doesn't have the ability anymore.


If Guards would lose their DP-28 because they are too strong, they'd get something as compensation. If DP-28 would lose some DPS because they are too powerful, they'd get nothing as compensation. In both scenarios, Guards were nerfed.

Nerfing the stats never leads to a buff somewhere else - it has always been like that. Removing a complete feature should be compensated.

The JT's stats (like PEN, DMG, ACC) weren't nerfed - the ability was just removed (partly - but the new ability is kinda meh).

A price reduction to 270 seems reasonable IMO. It'd still be the most expensive unit in the game.

guys can we please try to stay on topic/be respectful to others. defamation of other users is against the rules for a reason.

Oh for the 347859173498672165 time!

You NERF unit because its OVERPOWERED.

You do NOT compensate for the NERF, because it would lead yet again to unit being OVERPOWERED for the COST and we'd be BACK AT STEP ONE.

This is why it is called a NERF and not STAT RELOCATION.

And to picture it better to you:

I don't remember Guard Rifles getting any cost reductions or compensations when button and PTRS were nerfed.

To be fair we have no idea what relic thinks of this unit or why they changed it since there were no patch notes or explanations given for any of these changes

Wait what, what did they change? I don't see anything in the changelog... was there any other changes too?

http://www.coh2.org/topic/27310/hypothetical

I don't know....0 votes for outrageous OP attack-move moron tank?

You remind me of feminazi women.... they say overweight, confident woman are great but at the moment you say "I hope you have a daughter like her!" they go apeshit.

Then again, it seems that idiots that attack-move with Jagdtigers have been owning you - which is quite consistent with the value of your post.

well the poll wasn't set up so well considering that the factions are different. Who doesn't want squadwipes?

Wait what, what did they change? I don't see anything in the changelog... was there any other changes too?

JT can't shoot through walls anymore, only as an ability that cost muni like the ISU