Relic, an idea for Volksgrenadier improvement

Well, it doesn't surprise me that REforever, Jaigen and Sierra are agreeing to create terminators out of Volksgrenadiers.

I sort of agree though, take away their Panzerschrecks (move them somewhere else), and replace it with an automatic weapons package that gives several rifles and SMG's. The catch is that due to lack of training, these weapons are mediocre compared to SP / PG versions, they exist to keep the troop's heads above the water, not make them assault troops.

oh so they can be like vehicle crews? 4 grease guns loaded with like 29 blanks and 1 live bullet, each? Where even at point blank range they are lucky to kill 1 entity before needing to retreat.

^ Ahaha Vaz. Just imagine relic combining all of the neat ideas mentioned here and implement them in the next patch.

MGS2 had some of the most boring boss fights of the series. The only ones that were fun IMO were the Russian chick on the first level, the hordes of Metal Gear Rays with the Stinger, and the final sword fight vs Solidus. Other than that they were all really repetitive and gimmicky. Fatman's "tick tick tick!" still haunts my dreams.

@Milka

I dont like they idea of giving obers shreks. they come out way to late. This wil force players to fast tech to t4 just to get AT. By that time a decent allied player would overrun any OKW player.

Give shreks to sturm pios

Give volks fussi anti tank nade

Reketen needs buff also.

Well, i can't agree taking the schrecks from the volks, if you do that you'll have to give them something else to defend vs early vehicles like m20s or m3s. About upgrading volks with something else, you could do that but the only possibility would be doctrines. Some of sierras ideas like giving them 1 stg,2 mp40s and a lmg 34/42 would be stupid and overpowered. But you could give them 5 mp40s for example and a sprint ability, this would make them better sturmgrenadiers, cause they scale better into the lategame. Or you could give them a mg42, for let's say 90 ammunitions which would make it very expensive. These are my ideas for doing something about the volks but.. maybe there's someone else with better ideas, let me know.

actually nothing has to be given to volks to deal with any vehicles. Soviets are a perfect example that, with no handheld infantry AT weapon.

Buff Raketen and give Sturmpios the schrecks. give Volks panzerfaust if u wish

I really like the idea of giving volks more options, espically in the automatic department. HOWEVER, Why in the hell is the proposal LMG + STG-44s?!

Even as an axis fanboy, this is a bit too much.

I don't know about the balance angle, I haven't played OKW nearly enough, but the current state of affairs, where you have infantry blobs *chasing tanks* in open terrain, is more than a little silly.

These changes might be way too radical to ever be implemented though since at this point we're practically redesigning the faction.

Exactly the point, all I suggested was an option that's less intensive than a complete redesign of the entire damn faction.

I sort of agree though, take away their Panzerschrecks (move them somewhere else), and replace it with an automatic weapons package that gives several rifles and SMG's. The catch is that due to lack of training, these weapons are mediocre compared to SP / PG versions, they exist to keep the troop's heads above the water, not make them assault troops.

Lack of training? Dude you're confusing Volksgrenadiers with Volkssturm.


The Volksgrenadiers were professional soldiers, a renaming of existing divisions to economize on personnel. Instead of a regiment with squads consisting of 9-line infantry for Grenadier divisions, we now have regiments with squads consisting of 6-line infantry for Volksgrenadier divisions - given more automatic weapons to compensate for less manpower.

Exactly the point, all I suggested was an option that's less intensive than a complete redesign of the entire damn faction.

Ur "Suggestions" will not only change the faction.

OKW will be unstoppable

Exactly the point, all I suggested was an option that's less intensive than a complete redesign of the entire damn faction.

Well, you suggested giving them a "Balance Package" which included:

1 lmg34. 1 lmg42, 3 STGs and one optional Pshreck.

You sir, yes you, you deserve a cookie for that.


Though I agree with you that their AI efficiency needs improvement, even being able to upgrade at later CPs would be sufficient. Volks are pure garbage against USF and penal spam, but your suggestion is way impractical.

Though I agree with you that their AI efficiency needs improvement,

They dont.

OKW get the most powerfull starting unit (sturmpios)

And op YOLO Obers.

What else do u need?

The Volksgrenadiers were professional soldiers, a renaming of existing divisions to economize on personnel.

Not to be overly pedantic, but the Volksgrenadiers were overwhelmingly conscripts, just like almost all troops on all sides of WW2. If you meant "veteran" rather than "professional" then that's more correct, although by 1944 Germany suffered from serious manpower drain, and has lost much of their experienced NCOs in Russia.

Trading shreks for fausts both makes the faction less unique and provides a massive hole in the OKW at department which clearly can't be filled with vehicles(b/c they are so expensive). Vet 5 alone doesn't really make up for the reduced fuel income, the shrek upgrade is a primary reason why that mechanic is possible or else OKW would be reked by vehicles

*Intentionally ignores QueenRatchet123*

@Hon3ynuts: Fixing the RAK43 would prevent any kind of early rekt.

Well, you suggested giving them a "Balance Package" which included:

1 lmg34. 1 lmg42, 3 STGs and one optional Pshreck.

You sir, yes you, you deserve a cookie for that.


Though I agree with you that their AI efficiency needs improvement, even being able to upgrade at later CPs would be sufficient. Volks are pure garbage against USF and penal spam, but your suggestion is way impractical.

Actually I meant that there should be two different upgrade options, kind of like how Stormtroopers have two upgrade options. Choosing one locks out the other, and I specifically meant to say that the Infantry Combat Package should include One LMG-34 or LMG-42, 1x STG-44, and 3x MP-40's, or 2x STG-44s and 2x MP-40's. Making certain they don't obtain too much DPS in any one range but allow them to perform admirably in a variety of ranges. Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

But more specifically, they would then become extremely vulnerable to vehicles unless backed up by a Raketenwerfer or a Panzershrek squad. This would thin out the blob of Panzershreks since more than likely the OKW player will want some less expensive anti-infantry units on the field. They'll still be squishy and melt just as quickly to M1919's and BAR blobs, but maybe actually be able to deal some damage back at them especially with Vet.

Not to be overly pedantic, but the Volksgrenadiers were overwhelmingly conscripts, just like almost all troops on all sides of WW2. If you meant "veteran" rather than "professional" then that's more correct, although by 1944 Germany suffered from serious manpower drain, and has lost much of their experienced NCOs in Russia.

You Sir, should read this article here.

More specifically this line here.

"Volksgrenadier divisions participated in the Battle of the Bulge, the defense of the Siegfried Line and Eastern Front, and in the final battles in Germany."

"Some divisions acquitted themselves very well and fought tenaciously while others were rushed into battle with a minimum of training and thus performed very poorly. "

"Several Volksgrenadier divisions, especially those made up of "jobless" Wehrmacht personnel drawn from the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe, often displayed high motivation and morale which resulted in surprisingly good cohesion and military effectiveness against the Reich's enemies in the last eight or so months (about October 1944 through May 1945) of the war in Europe."


This bit implies that while there were at the very least an equal number of units that were rushed and less well trained than the divisions made up of "Jobless Wehrmacht Personnel".

That said, they were hardly the "old and infirm, and the old and weak" These more often than not were more youthful men who just came of age to enlist, veterans fresh from the hospitals, and Navy and Airforce personnel who could no longer perform in those sectors due to the decimation of the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine over the course of the war, as well as survivors of units that were more or less withered or annihilated.