The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

So, just taking a quick look at live games on any given day as in right now at time of writing this 48 1v1's vs 68 4v4. That is 96 1v1 players in games vs 544.

Lets take a look at 3's vs 2's. 72 games, 288 players on 2's
42 games of 3's at 252 players.

And finally custom games.. if anyone cares. 247 individual games up at time of writing.

This is not a uncommon occurrence either. I notice similar stats every time i log in.
But hey lets focus balance around 1's. Even if it is the mode with the lowest player base.
This is a very fun game. But for exclusive 1v1 action it goes to SC2. =/

Are you confusing me with Relic? I described the status quo, I am not their apologist.

Are you confusing me with Relic? I described the status quo, I am not their apologist.

Oh no not at all, But all i am saying is it would be like Riot games balancing Leauge of Legends around there dominion game mode instead of summoners rift.

Oh no not at all, But all i am saying is it would be like Riot games balancing Leauge of Legends around there dominion game mode instead of summoners rift.

Never played that game, but the fact is, in CoH pretty much since the dawn of times, 1s are generally (and IMO deservedly so) considered the most demanding in terms of overall skill. Add to that their better cast-ability (is that even a word?) and you have the reason why we have 1000 bucks 1v1 tournaments with some actual, serious competition - as far as the limited playerbase allows for that - yet nothing comparable ever surfaced in the 3v3/4v4 world.

Perhaps just increase the damage for zooks to match pzshreks. But keep the same pen values for zooks to maintain asymmetric balance.

Perhaps just increase the damage for zooks to match pzshreks. But keep the same pen values for zooks to maintain asymmetric balance.

Or decrease zooka cost to 50 and be done with USF.

Now, for the soviets... no idea. Perhaps if PTRS could do some crits on deflection? Like temporary immobilization, turret block or vision block on deflecting hits with 20% frequency? That alone would go a long way to making player not molo their own troops so they drop PTRS to be useful and its not like PTRS gunners weren't trained to shoot to cripple the tank. It could be even lower chance against heavies, but it would be a start, unique distinction and would make the weapon actually somewhat demand-able past 6th minute.

it should have target weak point

one thing i have to add to my prevois post is, that the allies, more important the soviet, rely heavily on call ins. the axis dont need to have commander x to win. but the soviet need commander x to win. a soviet without any call ins is a dead soviet. like anti tank:

soviet su85 is good but has low armor and a panther or even a pz4 will just circle it to death.

t34/76 is... well... you know wath i mean.

and the su76.... this crap doesnt deserve any words.

so the soviets will need a commander with heavy tank call ins or guards. the axis can play how they want but the soviet dont have a huge choice. they have to play the same few tactics again and again to win.

in 4v4 i mostly see either support spam or conscript spam, but most often support spam. its followed by either a guard spam or an ISU + shocks or t85 + shocks or is2 shocks. or sometimes soviet industry.

but wath i want to say is, that a soviet player does not have a huge choice which playstyle he wants to play. the axis have much more freedom regarding playstyle and so the soviets will either lose because they did an other tactic (or they win because of bad oppenents lol) or they win but wont play soviet anymore because its boring because its always the same.

so to summon it up:

allies need much more cheaper units (all units) to "outproduce" the axis while still keeping the balance.

and soviets (and america a little bit) need much more good non doctrinal units.
as always i apologize for my english.

Or decrease zooka cost to 50 and be done with USF.

Now, for the soviets... no idea. Perhaps if PTRS could do some crits on deflection? Like temporary immobilization, turret block or vision block on deflecting hits with 20% frequency? That alone would go a long way to making player not molo their own troops so they drop PTRS to be useful and its not like PTRS gunners weren't trained to shoot to cripple the tank. It could be even lower chance against heavies, but it would be a start, unique distinction and would make the weapon actually somewhat demand-able past 6th minute.

I can agree with the ptrs purposal. Would be better than making them abilities b/c then it would just be spammed like crazy, constantly making vehicles blind deaf and dumb. Not to mention that would be a big drain on Russian muni, and if they did not have the muni for it guards would just be worthless again

About the american bazooka, would lowering the cost to 50 go a long way? That is just over a 15% cost decrease, but would it really help that faction out? I am not sure how muni dependent the americans are, but with the cost decrease the only thing I can see them getting out of it is an extra nade here and there and another zook/bar in the longer run.

Or decrease zooka cost to 50 and be done with USF.

Now, for the soviets... no idea. Perhaps if PTRS could do some crits on deflection? Like temporary immobilization, turret block or vision block on deflecting hits with 20% frequency? That alone would go a long way to making player not molo their own troops so they drop PTRS to be useful and its not like PTRS gunners weren't trained to shoot to cripple the tank. It could be even lower chance against heavies, but it would be a start, unique distinction and would make the weapon actually somewhat demand-able past 6th minute.

I agree the ptrs needs something but stun mechanics are pretty annoying, even worse if they're random. It makes sense from a realism standpoint but I don't think it'd be fun

There are many unused crits that could be added to that with specific %.
Doesn't have to be stun and I didn't even mentioned stun.

I think the PTRS should just act more like a beefed up rifle, do 20 damage, a fast rate-of-fire, low-ish accuracy*, much faster aim time, and better penetration over range. Create a weapon that can chip away at vehicles at a reasonable speed, but also be used against Infantry and not be worth less than a fist.

*Accuracy only works on Infantry, against vehicles it is always 100%.

An idea I have for Hand held AT is as fallows.

PTSR should have high pen and accuracy, but low damage. Something like a 80%-85% chance to pen any medium tank, and like 70% chance to pen a any heavy. But only do like 50 to 80 damage (maybe even lower).

PTSR I have always seen as a tank sniper rifle used to aim for a tanks weak spots. This is shown in the high pen and accuracy, but these At rifles lacked punch so low damage.

Bazookas on the other hand should be a balanced hand held weapon. ITs pen and accuracy shout be about average, along with its damage. It should be able to pen and hit mediums like 70% of the time will only pen heavies like 50% of the time. Its damage should also be like 100.

Bazookas should be average at the end of the day, but make up with this with the numbers the USF could field, on any unit they want.

Panzerschreck on the other hand should have low accuracy, good pen, but great damage. They should still pen most medium about 80% of the time, and heavys like 70%, but there accuracy should make them only be able to hit about 30-40% of the time at max range, and 50% at medium range. Still I think the damage should be like 120-130.(maybe higher)

Will this still make the Panzerschreck the best Handheld at weapon for inf, the accuracy penalty should lower there DPS as a whole. The fact is that the other german AT weapons have no problem doing there job (other then the Raketenwerfer), but are out shind by the panzerschreck. By making sherck more of a gamble, it should open the door for other forms of AT units to be used.

It drives me absolutely crazy that Axis can spam Obers and Shreks and win without even needing tanks, and when they do they have all the best tanks in the game. Meanwhile trying to win with the US is like climbing a mountain wearing roller skates. It takes forever, and you inevitably end up back where started wondering why you even bothered.

The long range accuracy and absurd penetration on the shrek is just icing on the fucking cake for Germans who already have such overwhelming AT capabilities that I just shake my head at Relics balance team.

Lets compare that with bazookas that will happily scratch the paint on a tiger/panther/jadgpanther/king tiger/elephant/jadgtiger but do little else. So basically every goddamn German tank except for the PIV, oh except you need to get in close and the PIV will decimate you with new squad mechanics.

Not to mention the bazooka was one of the most widely used weapons in the war and the Russian PTRs was actually far deadlier than the game makes it appear.

You barely see either in use.

It drives me absolutely crazy that Axis can spam Obers and Shreks and win without even needing tanks, and when they do they have all the best tanks in the game. Meanwhile trying to win with the US is like climbing a mountain wearing roller skates. It takes forever, and you inevitably end up back where started wondering why you even bothered.

The long range accuracy and absurd penetration on the shrek is just icing on the fucking cake for Germans who already have such overwhelming AT capabilities that I just shake my head at Relics balance team.

Lets compare that with bazookas that will happily scratch the paint on a tiger/panther/jadgpanther/king tiger/elephant/jadgtiger but do little else. So basically every goddamn German tank except for the PIV, oh except you need to get in close and the PIV will decimate you with new squad mechanics.

Of course the only ting an okw player need to is spam volks and obers and win 100% of the time. oh wait they dont .

Also fun fact a rifleman with a zooka will win vs a JP4 elephant jagdtiger and will do a fair bit of damage vs the panther before the mg takes the rifleman out. also the axis dont have the better tanks they have tank destroyers and the weaker generalist tanks. this gives a false impression on the allied players that axis tanks are better.

oh btw while shreks are better the is-2 will block most attacks from a shrek squad. so complaining about the heavy armor is not valid

Of course the only ting an okw player need to is spam volks and obers and win 100% of the time. oh wait they dont .

Also fun fact a rifleman with a zooka will win vs a JP4 elephant jagdtiger and will do a fair bit of damage vs the panther before the mg takes the rifleman out. also the axis dont have the better tanks they have tank destroyers and the weaker generalist tanks. this gives a false impression on the allied players that axis tanks are better.

oh btw while shreks are better the is-2 will block most attacks from a shrek squad. so complaining about the heavy armor is not valid

The only thing correct about your post was the first line. They can, and do fucking win by spamming volks and obers, the hilarious part is its one of the big problems with the OKW right now. The giant blob of doom.

Yea I can recall all those times my riflemen caught an unsupported elephant and jadgtiger out in the open away from their accompanying obers and volks.

Do you even believe the crap you are spewing right now? Good lord. Running rifles with zooks up to an elephant or obers supporting a jagd. That's not gonna end with the deaths of all my rifles while barely even scratching the paint, lol amazing tactical advice.

And apparently the IS-2 not instantly evaporating to shreks offends you as well.

Unbeleivable.

An idea I have for Hand held AT is as fallows.


Will this still make the Panzerschreck the best Handheld at weapon for inf, the accuracy penalty should lower there DPS as a whole. The fact is that the other german AT weapons have no problem doing there job (other then the Raketenwerfer), but are out shind by the panzerschreck. By making sherck more of a gamble, it should open the door for other forms of AT units to be used.

Actually it doesnt. If the okw had similar fuel income as the other factions it would be a different matter. but the fact is that the okw in most 1vs 1 games can only afford 1 panther or jp4 or 2 puma's . These guys potent as they are will fall apart fuel wise when dealing with the very cost effective call in tanks in the form of the 85 and e8. to properly balance this the okw needs shreks to support their AT tanks.

Your suggestion will not open up anything just unnecessarily gimp the okw. in my opinion the current handheld safe for the zooka who needs a slight price decrease is fine

The only thing correct about your post was the first line. They can, and do fucking win by spamming volks and obers, the hilarious part is its one of the big problems with the OKW right now. The giant blob of doom.

Yea I can recall all those times my riflemen caught an unsupported elephant and jadgtiger out in the open away from their accompanying obers and volks.

Do you even believe the crap you are spewing right now? Good lord. Running rifles with zooks up to an elephant or obers supporting a jagd. That's not gonna end with the deaths of all my rifles while barely even scratching the paint, lol amazing tactical advice.

And apparently the IS-2 not instantly evaporating to shreks offends you as well.

Unbeleivable.

No my very illogical friend. what im trying to say here is that if the shrek doesnt work automatically on the heavies despite being twice the cost of a single zook , then why should a zooka be a threat to all the units you listed. use logic mate . the shrek and zook are at best anti medium armour nothing more.

No my very illogical friend. what im trying to say here is that if the shrek doesnt work automatically on the heavies despite being twice the cost of a single zook , then why should a zooka be a threat to all the units you listed. use logic mate . the shrek and zook are at best anti medium armour nothing more.

Pair of wehr shrecks=120mun.
Pair of zookas=120mun.
Single shreck=90mun.
Single Zooka=60mun.

#math, not even once

Actually it doesnt. If the okw had similar fuel income as the other factions it would be a different matter. but the fact is that the okw in most 1vs 1 games can only afford 1 panther or jp4 or 2 puma's . These guys potent as they are will fall apart fuel wise when dealing with the very cost effective call in tanks in the form of the 85 and e8. to properly balance this the okw needs shreks to support their AT tanks.

Your suggestion will not open up anything just unnecessarily gimp the okw. in my opinion the current handheld safe for the zooka who needs a slight price decrease is fine

Then buff the ratkenwerfer to something resembling a Pak. The lack of fuel income does very little to stop the massive blob of super effective infantry that can hard counter any US armor.

Barring the IS-2, or ISU-152, you only really need one panther because obers completely nullify any and all infantry, and the 2-3 5 star volks squad can obliterate any allied armor.

Its not some magical coincidence that it takes me 20 min to find a game as a German in 4 v 4 vs 30 seconds as the allies. No one wants to play anything larger than a 2 v 2 as the allies, and with good fucking reason. The heavy armor is NOT balanced at all. Of course Germans are all for making the bazookas cheaper, a useless AT weapon is still useless even if it costs less.

The new instant squad wipe mechanics have only made the problem of closing with armor even worse. But hey Germans can always just keep cheering "flank" and "combined arms" so the game stays like it is.

Pair of wehr shrecks=120mun.
Pair of zookas=120mun.
Single shreck=90mun.
Single Zooka=60mun.

#math, not even once

And once again we see katitof in his natural element : failing hard.

last time i checked the okw has an 20 % ammo penalty. suffice to say the usf is able to field 2 zooka's for every shrek. while the ostheer does do bit more efficient when it comes to ammo you have to invest twice the mp for it unless your daft enough to not equip rear echelon with zooka's.