The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank
2 Dec 2014, 08:36 AM
#281
4 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I think a good fix for the raketen would be modifying the ready-aim time first, and seeing how it is then. The raketen does quite well later in the game, and is cheap enough to build 2 of, so I think that we should take small steps in changing it. Its biggest weakness is the time it takes to fire the first shot.
2 Dec 2014, 09:16 AM
#282
Posts: 351
I think a good fix for the raketen would be modifying the ready-aim time first, and seeing how it is then. The raketen does quite well later in the game, and is cheap enough to build 2 of, so I think that we should take small steps in changing it. Its biggest weakness is the time it takes to fire the first shot.
Yup, this is true. It's really annoying and it's the same problem ptrs' have.
2 Dec 2014, 10:15 AM
#283
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Changing shrecks handling to Sturmpio? This is the worst idea I ever heard. What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around? This is your proposed picture:
1. Want decent AI early game? Build sturmpio.
2. Want decent AT early game? Build sturmpio.
3. ...WHAT?
Again, it's not about the shrecks necessarely, it's about USF vehicles. They are to thin.
Or, if you wanna do something about shrecks, I saw some good ideas around here. Like veterancy shouldn't affect accuracy for shrecks. There are other ways. Like allowing a double shreck upgrade for volks for 180 or 190 amo, not a single one for 90. The shreck will come later and the amo investment would be much, much higher. But letting sturmpio carry all the roles, that would create a silly image in game and not only this. OKW early game would be seriously affected and personaly I don't think it's a good idea.
1. Want decent AI early game? Build sturmpio.
2. Want decent AT early game? Build sturmpio.
3. ...WHAT?
Again, it's not about the shrecks necessarely, it's about USF vehicles. They are to thin.
Or, if you wanna do something about shrecks, I saw some good ideas around here. Like veterancy shouldn't affect accuracy for shrecks. There are other ways. Like allowing a double shreck upgrade for volks for 180 or 190 amo, not a single one for 90. The shreck will come later and the amo investment would be much, much higher. But letting sturmpio carry all the roles, that would create a silly image in game and not only this. OKW early game would be seriously affected and personaly I don't think it's a good idea.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
2 Dec 2014, 11:03 AM
#284
Posts: 249
Again, it's not about the shrecks necessarely, it's about USF vehicles.
Actually I'd say it's about all medium tanks, you can't take full volley with any of them
3 Dec 2014, 02:20 AM
#285
Posts: 344
... Make it so hitting vehicles with handheld AT weapons provides ZERO XP? XP gained using handheld AT weapons ruins the vet system.
Impossible to code within the .RGDs.
Might be doable with a ridiculous amount of .scar coding though.
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3 Dec 2014, 02:42 AM
#286
Posts: 4928
Changing shrecks handling to Sturmpio? This is the worst idea I ever heard. What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around? This is your proposed picture:
1. Want decent AI early game? Build sturmpio.
2. Want decent AT early game? Build sturmpio.
3. ...WHAT?
Suffer manpower drain because all you built was sturmpio.
Getting outnumbered because all you built was sturmpio.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 02:46 AM
#287
Posts: 2053
What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around?
Conscripts.
But those have AT nades at least...
But then again, volksgrenadiers are volksgrenadiers - cheapest mainline infantry still has best vet; ive seen good use of basic volks as well. OKW AT can be developed properly without the cheap mainline infantry being the AT (so other areas would be improved) But that still is an ignorant question given that other basic infantry does well without AT weapons and not everything without an LMG is crap. The value of a squad that doesnt burn manpower income is undermined, given that all other OKW infantry are pretty expensive to reinforce.
3 Dec 2014, 04:22 AM
#288
Posts: 2070
i agree with braciszek, even the conscript joke
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
3 Dec 2014, 08:20 AM
#289
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Suffer manpower drain because all you built was sturmpio.
Getting outnumbered because all you built was sturmpio.
Thing is it's not normal for a single unit type to carry all roles. I'm sure there are other ways to handle this "spam" problem. Spam... don't they all do it? Grenadier spam, conscripts spam, maxim spam, rifles spam....
Strange everybody is upset because of spam but everybody does it. Nobody complained about spam in vCoh while paras spam, rangers spam, tommies spam and grenadiers spam were much worst than we see today in coh2. At least in coh2 when you build a tank, the blob thinks twice if it should take it down or avoid it. From this point of view, squad wiping tanks existence is justified.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
3 Dec 2014, 09:12 AM
#290
Posts: 4928
Thing is it's not normal for a single unit type to carry all roles.
Panzergrenadiers. Unless you mean repairing, in which case, CoH1 Panzergrenadiers.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 10:44 AM
#291
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Panzergrenadiers. Unless you mean repairing, in which case, CoH1 Panzergrenadiers.
Mining.... building....
+ Coh1 panzergrenadiers where the only one infantry unit buildable in T0.... In OKW's case you have 2 infantry units in T0. You propose one to cover all roles while the other will cover nothing. They don't even have a faust. Are volks to durable? They scall to good in veteancy? Ok, make the unit have 4 members. Like I said, there are many solutions, but making one unit to carry all roles seems the worst to me. No offense, it's just my opinion.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
3 Dec 2014, 12:41 PM
#292
Posts: 344
How about removing panzershreck from volksgrenadiers and instead giving them Panzerbüchse 39 Anti-tank rifle as ammo upgrade?
3 Dec 2014, 14:07 PM
#293
Posts: 935
Relic adjust the Abulance to the similar rate of healing as for Sov and Wherm somehow.
3 Dec 2014, 18:56 PM
#294
Posts: 1484
I think Relic should model the Shrek teams to the coh1 PE. OKW should have a "Tank buster" squad with increased man power no muni cost and leave the volks without shrek upgrades.
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3 Dec 2014, 19:29 PM
#295
Posts: 4928
How about removing panzershreck from volksgrenadiers and instead giving them Panzerbüchse 39 Anti-tank rifle as ammo upgrade?
Because that leads to Guard's syndrome, bad vs Infantry, bad vs Tanks.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 19:39 PM
#296
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Because that leads to Guard's syndrome, bad vs Infantry, bad vs Tanks.
Volksgrenadiers are a lot cheaper than guards though.
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3 Dec 2014, 19:59 PM
#297
Posts: 4928
Volksgrenadiers are a lot cheaper than guards though.
Being cheaper doesn't mean it needs to be worthless though. An AT Rifle is a downgrade in almost every way, even if it was a free upgrade it would have very limited use. You're basically trading 1/5 your infantry fighting ability (number goes up as you lose men) for a 1/5 chance to scratch a tank every 5 seconds.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 20:07 PM
#298
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Well it would probably not cost 90 munis so you could also get it a lot quicker and be protected against the M20 and M3A1 too. I mean it doesn't have to suck, I think it's an okay suggestion.
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4 Dec 2014, 04:46 AM
#299
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea for the panzerbuchse rifle instead of pshreck for grens. Pshreck can then be reduced to 70 mu, and given to sturmpios who are not really spammable. The reason I hear a lot of the time for the shreck on the volks being important is so that OKW can fend of light vehicles, and if anything the panzerbuchse rifle will have a higher DPS and therefore higher value vs. light vehicles.
Of course, such changes will also require a buff for the raketen, most likely a reduction in the weapon "ready-aim" time.
In terms of price, I like the idea to make the AT rifle cost 35 mu, or maybe 50, and then panzerfausts for the squad (AT package). I doubt that guards syndrome will be a problem since volks are not really good AI infantry, and don't lose too much DPS when they swap out a rifle for an AT rifle. It will be similar to the conscript AT package, except that they will have access to one slightly better rifle.
Of course, such changes will also require a buff for the raketen, most likely a reduction in the weapon "ready-aim" time.
In terms of price, I like the idea to make the AT rifle cost 35 mu, or maybe 50, and then panzerfausts for the squad (AT package). I doubt that guards syndrome will be a problem since volks are not really good AI infantry, and don't lose too much DPS when they swap out a rifle for an AT rifle. It will be similar to the conscript AT package, except that they will have access to one slightly better rifle.
4 Dec 2014, 07:13 AM
#300
Posts: 656
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea for the panzerbuchse rifle instead of pshreck for grens. Pshreck can then be reduced to 70 mu, and given to sturmpios who are not really spammable. The reason I hear a lot of the time for the shreck on the volks being important is so that OKW can fend of light vehicles, and if anything the panzerbuchse rifle will have a higher DPS and therefore higher value vs. light vehicles.
Of course, such changes will also require a buff for the raketen, most likely a reduction in the weapon "ready-aim" time.
In terms of price, I like the idea to make the AT rifle cost 35 mu, or maybe 50, and then panzerfausts for the squad (AT package). I doubt that guards syndrome will be a problem since volks are not really good AI infantry, and don't lose too much DPS when they swap out a rifle for an AT rifle. It will be similar to the conscript AT package, except that they will have access to one slightly better rifle.
+1
I could really see the panzerbuchse rifle working well for OKW. Particularly if volks were given faust. I would suggest that perhaps sturmpios should mirror PGrens and buy two shrecks for 120+ muni however. That would help consolidate their role as AT infantry and ensure that buying the shreck upgrade is a tactical choice instead of being automatic.
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