About the B-4

Protip: Try to actually read what has been posted before in this thread.

Why is B4 even a problem?

Because anything that hurts the Axis are deemed OP

Because anything that hurts the Axis are deemed OP

If you want anyone to take you seriously these posts need to stop.

Why is B4 even a problem?

it nullifys squad preservation, avoiding squad wipes comes down to luck, and the 'hard' counters are all doctrinal.

it nullifys squad preservation, avoiding squad wipes comes down to luck, and the 'hard' counters are all doctrinal.

Not that I disagree with you but ISU, JT, Kat, Stuka are all guilty of that.
Why single out the B4 with all of those things listed.

I don't feel kat or stuka is OP, But JT and ISU is a little over the top to say the least.
ISU's problems are compounded with Mark target.

The JT has highest range and can shoot though all terrain and 1-2 punch a tank with its ability.

Sorry for the tangent but at the end of the day, B4 stands currently as a good option for KT,TA,JT and it should stay that way.

We gotta look at the game as a whole to tone down the squad wiping and in JT's case tank erasing.

If you want anyone to take you seriously these posts need to stop.

well i am fuckin sick of having to plead for buffs or nerfs without the damn axis lobby coming in and telling everyone that Axis equipment is superior to everything. if some allied tank let alone unit, is equal to an axis counterpart it is deemed "imbalanced" and not asymmetrically balanced. you can't keep looking at fucking units in a vacuum and nerfing/buffing them without thinking about the consequences it may have.

Not that I disagree with you but ISU, JT, Kat, Stuka are all guilty of that.
Why single out the B4 with all of those things listed.

Nobody is singling anything out. Almost all of those units have threads and cards on the issue tracker.

I don't feel kat or stuka is OP, But JT and ISU is a little over the top to say the least.
ISU's problems are compounded with Mark target.

The JT has highest range and can shoot though all terrain and 1-2 punch a tank with its ability.

Sorry for the tangent but at the end of the day, B4 stands currently as a good option for KT,TA,JT and it should stay that way.

Of course it should, but currently at vet 3 it's just slightly too good of an option. I don't think changing its vet 3 bonus is too much to ask.

We gotta look at the game as a whole to tone down the squad wiping and in JT's case tank erasing.

The issue tracker is an attempt at just that. The forums are for targeted discussion on specific topics. Start a thread in the balance forum that attempts to look at the game as a whole and see how that goes for you.

Of course it should, but currently at vet 3 it's just slightly too good of an option. I don't think changing its vet 3 bonus is too much to ask.

Oh not at all, That's a problem with its vet not the unit the damage it can deal at vet 3 is.. obscene to say the least.

The issue tracker is an attempt at just that. The forums are for targeted discussion on specific topics. Start a thread in the balance forum that attempts to look at the game as a whole and see how that goes for you.

Sadly your right about that. I try to look at things as a whole unit, a end product if you will.
Things can seem so different if you look at them one by one.

well i am fuckin sick of having to plead for buffs or nerfs without the damn axis lobby coming in and telling everyone that Axis equipment is superior to everything.

So I'm the axis lobby? At what point did I say anything remotely resembling that?

if some allied tank let alone unit, is equal to an axis counterpart it is deemed "imbalanced" and not asymmetrically balanced. you can't keep looking at fucking units in a vacuum and nerfing/buffing them without thinking about the consequences it may have.

Well, please educate me then. What axis unit is the B4 equal to? What will be the unintended consequences of changing or reducing the B4's vet bonuses?

Not that I disagree with you but ISU, JT, Kat, Stuka are all guilty of that.
Why single out the B4 with all of those things listed.

I don't feel kat or stuka is OP, But JT and ISU is a little over the top to say the least.
ISU's problems are compounded with Mark target.

The JT has highest range and can shoot though all terrain and 1-2 punch a tank with its ability.

Sorry for the tangent but at the end of the day, B4 stands currently as a good option for KT,TA,JT and it should stay that way.

We gotta look at the game as a whole to tone down the squad wiping and in JT's case tank erasing.

The Stuka and the Kat both have a very distinctive sound when they are firing and you can also predict the barage's path as soon as the first rocket lands, which gives you a very breif oportunity to react and bring your units to safety. Also the JT and the ISU don't kill medium tanks with one shot, and in comparison to the precision strike they don't always hit bullseye.

Also as Romeo said, these units have been discussed elswherer already, so I felt there is no need to bring them up again.

Once again I think it needs to be restated that maybe if the other static artillery pieces weren't giant wastes of manpower we might seem them more often.

Suggestions for buffing them:
Barrage lasts longer allowing them to deny Territory better.
Both Soviet and German howitzers get counter barrage lock in to help counter artillery spam
Vet improves cool down significantly rather than just upping damage
If you tank is hit by a howitzer shell it should take significant damage and receive a track loss or engine damage.

So I'm the axis lobby? At what point did I say anything remotely resembling that?


Well, please educate me then. What axis unit is the B4 equal to? What will be the unintended consequences of changing or reducing the B4's vet bonuses?

You are not in the "axis lobby" im just talking about the general state of the coh2.org forums and the official forums. And the B4 is a unique weapon it its own. THe closest thing the Axis have is the Railway Arty, but that isn't on the map and is inaccurate. Vet 3 damage on B4 is kinda silly s i am in favor of changing that, but the core functionality of the B4 should remain the same. It is doing its job of punishing aggressive OKW truck placements and static defenses and heavy tanks that remain stationary.

I was talking about allied units in general in my earlier post and not the B4. sorry if i was off topic.

An example of unintended consequences in nerfing the B4 WITHOUT buffing Soviet units would mean Soviet would have zero chance in 3v3 and 4v4 outside of ISU. Those modes are a mess already, so it would be a big disaster if it got any worse (although one could say those modes are already imbalanced and should not be taken into discussion, but i disagree).

On that note, don't forget to vote

On that note, don't forget to vote

No "It's fine" or "It's UP" options? Remember these options are needed for a properly unbias poll, even if you do not agree with them.

The forums are the place to discuss whether it's fine or underpowered. I aggregate consensus suggestions as well as I can. The cards are not polls. If you want to see something changed according to the suggestions on the card, vote for it. If not, don't vote for it. I suggest discussing the merits of the issue tracker in the issue tracker thread, not here.

The B4 is just OP. It reloads to fast, comes with fast CP and can nullify vetted infantry or heavy tanks. Every German artillery is shaming itself.

Replace the damn lFH18 with a sfH18 150mm artillery. Or give us a Hummel or why is the Sturmtiger doing only 640Dmg with 380mm while the 203mm Gaubitsa does the same damage?

Everybody is complaining about the Sturmtiger being OP, but the B4 is faster reloaded, does not need to get close and therefore vulnerable, got a decent Vet ability, is cheaper and has a fucking huge range.

Yeah always those russian broken stuff.

The B-4 is fine as it is, and i mean it.

This a unit is as special as anything the Axis has. (JP,TA, stukas, e.t.c)

This is a static unit, so when the enemy as located it, it become as good as dead.

If you can't kill it, then you are already dead or you don't play very well.

When someone use a B-4, it has to protect it so it freeze popcap. When you add the pop of the B-4 itself that mean that you will encounter a lot less attacking enemies. A simple way to kill it, use smoke from a mortar and kill it/steal it with bundle grenades. The Sovs will have a «moral check» if you steal it.

It's not worst then a well placed pak/40, and it's killed/stolen the same way.

The Axis are already the most liked faction, please don't plea to remove some of the only flavor left to the allies. Maybe the Axis'players want to play automatch vs the cpu ? when all the Allies quit out of boredom...

The Allies need more love not the opposite.

I say the long range capabilities of the Axis infantry is a lot more in need of tuning then the B-4...They impact the game a lot more.

Be serious guys, learn to play and stop calling nerf at anything good the allies have and even unit not that good as the B-4...

Thanks.

P.S: Please Allies players don't let the Axis player's rhetorical arguments get to you and stand your ground.

The B-4 howitzer seems to be very popular lately and is probably the most useful immobile, onmap artillery in game.

My main concern with it is, that I think it's precision strike is a bit over the top. Oneshotting tanks across the map for a handful of ammo is too much in my opinion.

I would therefore suggest to either town down the precision strikes damage or it's range.

has anyone on the last couple of pages actually read this at all? its the OP...
no talk about removal or a major hit with the nerfbat... just slight concerns about the vet1 ability

but this is coh2.org, so...

Show Spoiler

This thread is hilarious. I would agree that the vet 3 bonus needs to be toned down though.

Tips to avoid being b4'd:

1. Don't blob.

2. Don't blob and mass retreat all you infantry units to a forward HQ the enemy has seen.

3. If playing a small map, you or your team mates better have a doctrine that counters it. Welcome to coh2.

4. Don't give it free vet by having high value targets stationary in the same place for a long time.

5. If you hear a plane, move your shit.

6. If it gets vet, and you have no hard counter, use a soft counter to take it back to relying on RNG.

I am aware that there is a bug with the decrewed weapon and pop, but you can't use a bug as an argument for rebalance. Better to make relic aware of said bug, and discuss the the balance of the weapon as it's intended to be.

For people moaning that it negates unit preservation, explain to me how this unit is any different to any other unit that fires an AoE shell or projectile of any kind? Mortars, tanks, rocket artillery, grenades even mines have the ability to squad wipe.

If you're blobbing and you retreat all you units at once, and the B4 wipes them, well that's because you blobbed, not because the B4 is OP, and it has just as much chance of wiping that blob in that circumstance as any howitzer/offmap/mobile indirect fire platform in the game, given the same circumstances.

You are seriously comparing the squad wipe chance from a mortar with the b4? Also soft counter, you guys are so funny. It is not that you can just drive down the street to the enemy base to kill it with grenades.