About the B-4

After reading between the lines in a lot of these comments it appears that the precision shot is what is causing most the tears. Given the squad positions changes I suspect there will be more tear threads adn this ability in the future.

Robust discussion is what the Admin like on a Balance thread-and you guys have surely delivered- congrats!

Can the 3-vet B-4 really knock a full health Jagdtiger at one shot? Yes, yes it can; If the stars are aligned perfectly and you get a critical hit, then yes it CAN happen. I've done it once. (1 time that is) Still it regulary does 90% damage, that pushes it over the top.


Why I didn't like tripple vet being an increase in range is because that would mean you can have the B-4 standing way further back and just wait for veterancy, which means they are harder to flank.

Maybe make 3-vet unlock the direct fire ability and also change the direct fire ability to ignore terrain?


And I agree that I too have a problem with black and white things, like there is only one counter. And people bring up the stuka all the time which is the only reason I talk about it. Go to page four and look at my wall of text, B-4 has plenty of ways to be countered, indirectly (ie not doing anything with the B-4 but negating the damage) aswell as directly, as in taking it out.

A handful of Munition? A handful? It is a vetted ability that costs 90 munitions for a single shot.
If you go heavy with the B-4 that means you don't spend anything on muni for the duration of the game.

If you know you're going B-4, having 90 MN at all times is not a big issue -- you can just save it on a couple of other abilities / upgrades / mines, and have a super unit regularly available. But if you want to counter the B-4 and go Jaeger Armor, you'll have to have 240 ready to use recon + Stuka against it. Now THAT is what you call not having any MN for anything.

I have a hard time getting behind a nerf to the only weapon that can kill the jagdtiger / KT

B4 and the ISU are two units that you must plan to counter b/c you will lose if you don't at the same time though counters exist and when availible make the B4 useless. I think thats an annoying dynamic and should be changed.

Also OKW has like no real counter to a b4 in an HQ sector which is like ridiculous considering how powerful it can be.

At the same time in 1v1s its not an insta win or an obvious purchase where as in 2v2+ its an amazingly efficient option if they don't have stuka dive bomb. Whatever changes made should have this in mind

If you know you're going B-4, having 90 MN at all times is not a big issue -- you can just save it on a couple of other abilities / upgrades / mines, and have a super unit regularly available. But if you want to counter the B-4 and go Jaeger Armor, you'll have to have 240 ready to use recon + Stuka against it. Now THAT is what you call not having any MN for anything.

If you would have read my earlier post you would also see I bring this up. I regularly use the B-4 when it is out and has vet 1 you'll have between 350-450 muni pooled. That is 5 shots right off the bat, considering reload time, you'll most often get a couple more shots (2-3) before the muni cost will be a bigger restriction on the time between shots then reload time.

And as stated multiple times, stuka isn't the only thing to counter it, it is however the easiest, and wiping a unit from the face of the earth with two clicks 160muni is not bad, 240 if you are incapable of getting vision in any other way, or you are the only player.

And he has to spend muni on taking out all dangers there is, elite infantry and tanks, you have to fire once, twice on long games.

Stuka being the only counter? No it is the easiest, most strait forward one (imagine a 2 click counter for ISU/Jagd.) Im sounding like a broken tape recorder now, but there are several indirect and direct, hard and soft, counters to the B-4.

(Which of course doesn't excuse the 3 vet dmg buff.)

After reading between the lines in a lot of these comments it appears that the precision shot is what is causing most the tears. Given the squad positions changes I suspect there will be more tear threads adn this ability in the future.

The B-4 howitzer seems to be very popular lately and is probably the most useful immobile, onmap artillery in game.

My main concern with it is, that I think it's precision strike is a bit over the top. Oneshotting tanks across the map for a handful of ammo is too much in my opinion.

I would therefore suggest to either town down the precision strikes damage or it's range.

Initial post, may want to read that before posting in a thread

Gustav please, the whole thread talks about the b4 in general.

If you would have read my earlier post you would also see I bring this up. I regularly use the B-4 when it is out and has vet 1 you'll have between 350-450 muni pooled. That is 5 shots right off the bat, considering reload time, you'll most often get a couple more shots (2-3) before the muni cost will be a bigger restriction on the time between shots then reload time.

And as stated multiple times, stuka isn't the only thing to counter it, it is however the easiest, and wiping a unit from the face of the earth with two clicks 160muni is not bad, 240 if you are incapable of getting vision in any other way, or you are the only player.

And he has to spend muni on taking out all dangers there is, elite infantry and tanks, you have to fire once, twice on long games.

Stuka being the only counter? No it is the easiest, most strait forward one (imagine a 2 click counter for ISU/Jagd.) Im sounding like a broken tape recorder now, but there are several indirect and direct, hard and soft, counters to the B-4.

(Which of course doesn't excuse the 3 vet dmg buff.)

None of this refutes anything in my post.

The sum problem with the soviet faction is its inability to deal with any form of heavy armour. The real reason you pick a commander is to deal with heavy armour. When I pick an ISU commander, what I'm really doing is denying my opponent infantry to support his heavy tanks, so that my infantry/tanks/at guns can beat up his tiger tanks. When I pick a commander that has an IS-2, its because I want a tank that doesn't die in 3-4 shots from german AT, and can actually engage panthers and tigers.

When I pick the counter attack commander, I'm doing it for the sole purpose of sniping the enemy Tiger/jagd/ele/King T. while its sitting still.

You cannot simply start nerfing artillery for doing exactly what its intended to do.

The B4 is hyper easy to kill, and is a high RNG weapon. Its balanced just fine, and need zero changes.

B-4 is a good howitzer, In fact its the only good one in the game.
It's fine, The ML-20 and LeFH need some major loving, If you nerf the B-4 its in the same lot as the ML-20 and LeFH

If OKW players don't have an artillery flare commander, and the allies have enough AA units, then Axis GG, even the Ost players have 50KG stuka bombing run abilities.

If OKW players don't have an artillery flare commander, and the allies have enough AA units, then Axis GG, even the Ost players have 50KG stuka bombing run abilities.

That M15 + M5 quad meta.
Can you provide a single 2v2 or 1v1 game where soviets have more then 1 AA unit?

God... Since when bombing strike counters b4?!

Dude, think... Decrew, no vet, no precision shot.

That M15 + M5 quad meta.
Can you provide a single 2v2 or 1v1 game where soviets have more then 1 AA unit?

Forget to say, I'm talking about 4V4 game. You always seem biased.

Dude, think... Decrew, no vet, no precision shot.

Dude, think... Repair, crew with CE, no popcap penalty and mp drain, he wasted 180-240muni.

Dude, think... Repair, crew with CE, no popcap penalty and mp drain, he wasted 180-240muni.

Thank you.

To the people saying to use doctrinal stuff: the need to equip one specific commander JUST IN CASE the enemy has another specific commander in his loadout is simply bad design. Players should not be forced into specific loadouts, as this reduces the variety of commanders actually used. There should be no unit and/or ability, doctrinal or not, that can only really be countered by doctrinal units and/or abilities.

To the people saying to use doctrinal stuff: the need to equip one specific commander JUST IN CASE the enemy has another specific commander in his loadout is simply bad design. Players should not be forced into specific loadouts, as this reduces the variety of commanders actually used. There should be no unit and/or ability, doctrinal or not, that can only really be countered by doctrinal units and/or abilities.

well your point would have more weight if b4 was ostheer's arsenal and it was soviet's job to counter it because sov is generally forced to choose as soon as possible for shocks, guards for more variety in infantry units. but for ostheer, it is easier to choose doctrines more reactively for stock units do their jobs superbly without doctrinal call ins.