The B-4 howitzer seems to be very popular lately and is probably the most useful immobile, onmap artillery in game.
My main concern with it is, that I think it's precision strike is a bit over the top. Oneshotting tanks across the map for a handful of ammo is too much in my opinion.
I would therefore suggest to either town down the precision strikes damage or it's range.
About the B-4
10 Nov 2014, 18:41 PM
#1
Posts: 747
10 Nov 2014, 18:46 PM
#2
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedIt's damage is a little ridiculous, but there's literally only one doctrine with it, and it's pretty obvious when your opponent is using it, not to mention it can be countered by a single stuka dive bomb strike. It's the Soviet's artillery ace.
A Fallen Scrub
10 Nov 2014, 18:49 PM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If you are having your tanks one shotted across the map, given the amazing B-4 turn speed and shell travel time, well, you might want to consider not sitting with your tanks being immobile for extended periods of time against B-4 user, because this thing have least of all arty pieces chance to shoot at something that is moving.
Precision strike being 90 muni also isn't really spammable.
Precision strike being 90 muni also isn't really spammable.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Nov 2014, 18:52 PM
#4
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Do people even use Stuka dive bomb docs anymore? I haven't seen one in forever.
I think maybe the damage should maybe taper off a little more near the edges.
Main issue is, however, B-4's really the only good static howitzer. The ML-20 suffers from the docs its in which are not particularly great since Soviets rely on call-in tanks, while the Lefh, well, it's the Lefh, it hasn't been that good since its number of shells was dropped with increased cooldown.
I think maybe the damage should maybe taper off a little more near the edges.
Main issue is, however, B-4's really the only good static howitzer. The ML-20 suffers from the docs its in which are not particularly great since Soviets rely on call-in tanks, while the Lefh, well, it's the Lefh, it hasn't been that good since its number of shells was dropped with increased cooldown.
10 Nov 2014, 18:55 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Do people even use Stuka dive bomb docs anymore? I haven't seen one in forever.
I think maybe the damage should maybe taper off a little more near the edges.
Main issue is, however, B-4's really the only good static howitzer. The ML-20 suffers from the docs its in which are not particularly great since Soviets rely on call-in tanks, while the Lefh, well, it's the Lefh, it hasn't been that good since its number of shells was dropped with increased cooldown.
Play with close air support doctrine.
SCAS run one shoots jacksons, wolverines and priests and strafe run pins infantry blobs for grens to a-move them.
Icing on the cake is cheap reckon coupled with stuka.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Nov 2014, 19:26 PM
#6
Posts: 292
If the B4 is going to get nerfed then Jagdtiger needs to be removed from the game and the King Tiger need to become doctrinal. As simple as that.
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
10 Nov 2014, 19:42 PM
#7
Posts: 747
I'm not a big fan of those tabula rasa solutions to be honest. Having only one hardcounter to a unit is extremely limiting and bad for the gameplay, as can be seen with other units (Jagdtiger, ISU, KT etc.) Sure there are many factors contributing to the issue for example map design etc.
Still, I think 90 muni to lob a pinpoint accurate democharge across the map is a steal. Tanks need to stand still to repair and crippled engines are a very common thing to appear too. Also the OKW has no direct counter to the B-4.
Still, I think 90 muni to lob a pinpoint accurate democharge across the map is a steal. Tanks need to stand still to repair and crippled engines are a very common thing to appear too. Also the OKW has no direct counter to the B-4.
10 Nov 2014, 19:42 PM
#8
Posts: 923
A handful of Munition? A handful? It is a vetted ability that costs 90 munitions for a single shot.
If you go heavy with the B-4 that means you don't spend anything on muni for the duration of the game.
It's range, and more importantly the range of which it is effective without precision strike is low, like 110-120.
That being said the tripple veterancy damage buff of 50% makes it a tad over the top.
edit: One shotting Jagdtigers and KTs is perhaps more than a "tad".
If you go heavy with the B-4 that means you don't spend anything on muni for the duration of the game.
It's range, and more importantly the range of which it is effective without precision strike is low, like 110-120.
That being said the tripple veterancy damage buff of 50% makes it a tad over the top.
edit: One shotting Jagdtigers and KTs is perhaps more than a "tad".
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
10 Nov 2014, 19:44 PM
#9
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Do people even use Stuka dive bomb docs anymore? I haven't seen one in forever.
There were tons of stuka dive bombs in the SCC, the vast majority of which were used to counter B4s. The B4 is way too powerful and needs a change.
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10 Nov 2014, 19:48 PM
#10
3 
Posts: 545
Waaaaaaaaaaat, so walking Stuka that can just Mario kart into range and strike the B4 and back away long before any response (if your clever enough to launch your strike a safe location)that's not a direct counter? I mean technically it's an indirect fire weapon so i guess it's an indirect counter, my mistake.
10 Nov 2014, 19:51 PM
#11
Posts: 923
Waaaaaaaaaaat, so walking Stuka that can just Mario kart into range and strike the B4 and back away long before any response (if your clever enough to launch your strike a safe location)that's not a direct counter? I mean technically it's an indirect fire weapon so i guess it's an indirect counter, my mistake.
Sure if it would wipe the B-4 everytime. But it doesn't for the most time. It will decrew it with a good hit. But you can just repair it quickly and recrew it.
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
10 Nov 2014, 19:51 PM
#12
Posts: 1484
B4 is perfectly fine. Why do we need to nerf something that is SO inaccurate and relies on dumb luck and opponents micro? Soviets needs some love which they haven't received since last year.
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10 Nov 2014, 19:58 PM
#13
Posts: 2053
It is very useful, but the Soviets have it, so it must be removed. 
10 Nov 2014, 20:09 PM
#14
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
You know why this is the only good static artillery on the game? Because the other 2 were nerf with the amount of shells they fired while the B4 remain to shot only 1 powerful shell.
It also use to live on a world where you would have face every single game a double OH. If you combine that with a meta of ISU vs Elephant, it's mostly assure you would have a hard counter to it. You would mostly have a recon and some offmap between the 2 or more teammates.
With the addittion of OKW and the nerf on the Elephant, you are seeing less straight hardcounters, specially in double OKW (Vanilla OKW commanders doesn't have an offmap to destroy it). Take into consideration the medic/repair HQ from OKW and you have some juicy targets to shoot at.
Static artillery lives on a black and white world, where you either have the direct hardcounter or you pray to make a push so powerful that you are able to YOLO your tanks into the enemy base.
PD: if we add that you can cheaply recrew the B4 with lowpopcap after the first shot...
It also use to live on a world where you would have face every single game a double OH. If you combine that with a meta of ISU vs Elephant, it's mostly assure you would have a hard counter to it. You would mostly have a recon and some offmap between the 2 or more teammates.
With the addittion of OKW and the nerf on the Elephant, you are seeing less straight hardcounters, specially in double OKW (Vanilla OKW commanders doesn't have an offmap to destroy it). Take into consideration the medic/repair HQ from OKW and you have some juicy targets to shoot at.
Static artillery lives on a black and white world, where you either have the direct hardcounter or you pray to make a push so powerful that you are able to YOLO your tanks into the enemy base.
PD: if we add that you can cheaply recrew the B4 with lowpopcap after the first shot...
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Nov 2014, 20:34 PM
#15
Posts: 747
You know why this is the only good static artillery on the game? Because the other 2 were nerf with the amount of shells they fired while the B4 remain to shot only 1 powerful shell.
It also use to live on a world where you would have face every single game a double OH. If you combine that with a meta of ISU vs Elephant, it's mostly assure you would have a hard counter to it. You would mostly have a recon and some offmap between the 2 or more teammates.
With the addittion of OKW and the nerf on the Elephant, you are seeing less straight hardcounters, specially in double OKW (Vanilla OKW commanders doesn't have an offmap to destroy it). Take into consideration the medic/repair HQ from OKW and you have some juicy targets to shoot at.
Static artillery lives on a black and white world, where you either have the direct hardcounter or you pray to make a push so powerful that you are able to YOLO your tanks into the enemy base.
PD: if we add that you can cheaply recrew the B4 with lowpopcap after the first shot...
Very well put!
I think the B-4 and all the other static artillery pieces need to be reworked, so they fit the game post WFA.
B4 is perfectly fine. Why do we need to nerf something that is SO inaccurate and relies on dumb luck and opponents micro? Soviets needs some love which they haven't received since last year.
It's about the precision strike if you cared to actually read my initial post.
Waaaaaaaaaaat, so walking Stuka that can just Mario kart into range and strike the B4 and back away long before any response (if your clever enough to launch your strike a safe location)that's not a direct counter? I mean technically it's an indirect fire weapon so i guess it's an indirect counter, my mistake.
The B-4 heavily outranges the Walking stuka, add an ISU to the equation or a map like minsk or semoski and you won't get anywhere near firing range with the Wurfrahmen.
A handful of Munition? A handful? It is a vetted ability that costs 90 munitions for a single shot.
If you go heavy with the B-4 that means you don't spend anything on muni for the duration of the game.
It's range, and more importantly the range of which it is effective without precision strike is low, like 110-120.
That being said the tripple veterancy damage buff of 50% makes it a tad over the top.
edit: One shotting Jagdtigers and KTs is perhaps more than a "tad".
Saving up that amount of ammo ain't no effort. 90 Muni is nothing when you can point/click/boom tanks,vehicles, buildings pretty much everywhere on the map.
10 Nov 2014, 20:47 PM
#16
Posts: 2053
Ill agree that Static Artillery needs a rework. Like it was said, you either counter it hard, or you cant counter it at all. ML-20, Lefh, and B-4 all need to be useful if a commander containing them is chosen, but they also have to be able to be properly countered by the enemy in some way every game. Static artillery played a massive role in the east, and its a shame that their feature in this game is underdeveloped, and shoved in the corner.
10 Nov 2014, 20:57 PM
#17
Posts: 978
It's damage is a little ridiculous, but there's literally only one doctrine with it, and it's pretty obvious when your opponent is using it...The old Tiger Ace was in literally only one doctrine and it was obvious when your opponent was using it... thus it was balanced.
An OP unit is going to be OP no matter in how many docs it is.
If you are having your tanks one shotted across the map, given the amazing B-4 turn speed and shell travel time, well, you might want to consider not sitting with your tanks being immobile for extended periods of time against B-4 user.You can´t repair while moving your tanks around... good players will just wait until you repair (you can hear that through the fog of war, or someone uses a recon) or not fire the gun at all to make you nervous about repairing. Thus once a B4 is on the field repairing is way too risky. Versus good opponents its even impossible.
10 Nov 2014, 21:01 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You can´t repair while moving your tanks around... good players will just wait until you repair (you can hear that through the fog of war, or someone uses a recon) or not fire the gun at all to make you nervous about repairing. Thus once a B4 is on the field repairing is way too risky. Versus good opponents its even impossible.
But you aren't rooted for the repairs and can move away if you were spotted or reckoned.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Nov 2014, 21:04 PM
#19
Posts: 74
Sure if it would wipe the B-4 everytime. But it doesn't for the most time. It will decrew it with a good hit. But you can just repair it quickly and recrew it.
You still have to get to Vet 1 with that recrewed B-4, the likelyhood of that happening before Stuka wipes it again is very low.
10 Nov 2014, 21:04 PM
#20
3 Posts: 545
Gustav,
By saying that the ISU152 could be a factor your talking team games (as the b4 does not share this call in) to which I'd like to say the axis have the most uncounter-able combo of flares and off map. And in 1v1 if you can't find a single spot to hit the b4 on the small boards that you typically play on with the walking Stuka that's confusing. The b4 on 1v1 boards is overkill on range and the Stuka is also more than sufficient on them for base harrament considering it can mid/late game take refuge in the forward defensive pocket created by the flak equipped SWS.
By saying that the ISU152 could be a factor your talking team games (as the b4 does not share this call in) to which I'd like to say the axis have the most uncounter-able combo of flares and off map. And in 1v1 if you can't find a single spot to hit the b4 on the small boards that you typically play on with the walking Stuka that's confusing. The b4 on 1v1 boards is overkill on range and the Stuka is also more than sufficient on them for base harrament considering it can mid/late game take refuge in the forward defensive pocket created by the flak equipped SWS.
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