Call in units that desperately need buffing to be relevant

I will stick with my favorite 2 factions for starters (wehr and SU) but I welcome everyone to contribute their ideas for making these units more relevant.

SU:
Dshka MG - It is more expensive than maxim, doesn't do enough damage or suppression over maxim to justify this unit. The only use is as a fill in for T2 which is something but I would like to see this unit have lower suppression than maxim/mg42 but have a heck of a lot more damage so that it can shred infantry who don't get out of its narrow cone of fire and it could be a reasonable form of Anti-Vehicle deterrence as it was in reality.

Irregulars - Like the idea as these kinds of troops were leveraged so heavily by the SU but they are too weak/too small squad size to be more than a niche situation unit...especially when you consider the rest of this doctrine and what it gives up they should either 1. have larger squad size 2. be given DP-28/PTRS upgrades 3. maybe both

KV-1 - Compared to other off map heavies it doesn't deliver enough firepower/mobility to be a true alternative although it isn't a complete waste as it give SU a nice spearhead that can absorb more AT fire power than the 34/76 tank.

Wehr:
Le Howitzer - Very MP expensive, very weak to numerous off map abilities/katyusha/B4 what have you, and it doesn't have the range or accuracy to be much of a threat to the mobile soviets...i only use it in large team games or vs usf in 2v2 who spam fighting positions.

Assault Grenadiers - Many people who use them try to make them their base line infantry which is a mistake and shouldn't be their role in game design, but for how much they cost to reinforce and the fact they have to be on top of infantry to deal damage, they should be made more expensive on initial investment and be given some kind of AI upgrade option such as STG44s for half the squad...keep their lack of infantry ability so that soviets can have early game counters even if they go T1.

250/251 HT - It should be cheaper on call in as it doesn't reinforce or fight, the extra fuel and MP cost over the gren with LMG or PG squad make it a risky investment without a whole lot of reward.

Please feel free to tell me where I am wrong or suggest other units.

I actually think the KV-1 is pretty good as it is now as it isnt a ridiculous counter-all unit like other heavy tanks. It serves its role as a meatshield, and it has obvious weaknesses. I wouldnt be able to come up with a way to make it better, anyways.

ussles units:
dshk - so many nerfs that will be nice when that it be since relise
t-70 - usless fuel coast - spam shreks do this units sucks
su-76 - many fuel coast - ussles sight
KV-1 remade to KV-85
m10 wolverine
cons & usf main solders need some buffs
m42 soviet at gun ussles by tanks and infantry

KV1 shots reliably penetrate my Tigers. Robust tank

No mention of OKW Panzer IV's?

Wolverine feels like it should be useful in theory, but it just somehow isn't.

SU:
Dshka MG - It is more expensive than maxim, doesn't do enough damage or suppression over maxim to justify this unit. The only use is as a fill in for T2 which is something but I would like to see this unit have lower suppression than maxim/mg42 but have a heck of a lot more damage so that it can shred infantry who don't get out of its narrow cone of fire and it could be a reasonable form of Anti-Vehicle deterrence as it was in reality.

Lets see how your lovely DSHK has changed

1.Dshk 38 HMG

• Damage from 20 to 16
• Near Accuracy from 0.64 to 0.72
• Far Accuracy from 0.16 to 0.18
• Cooldown min from 1.25 to 0.5
• Cooldown max from 2 to 1
• Cooldown duration multiplier far from 1 to 1.7

2.Soviet Dshk 38 Sokolov
Damage reduced from 16 to 12

3.Dshk HMG from 1 CP to 2 CP

4.DSHK HMG Penetration from 1/1/1 to 2.5/2.0/1.5
Armor piercing rounds now provides 3x penetration rather than an additional +9 penetration at all ranges
Properly received the +25% received accuracy like all other team weapons (NOTE:weapon crews dont have +25% received accuracy anymore)
Damage from 12 to 10
Manpower cost from 360 to 300

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/dshk_38_sokolov_mp

KV1 shots reliably penetrate my Tigers. Robust tank

I find that extremely hard to believe, and Counterattack is amongst my favourite commanders. Doesn't the KV-1 use the same gun as the T34-76?

Wehr HT call-ins are useless. To expensive for what they do. That's why nobody calls them.

@ThoseDeafMutes - every single USF vehicle's problem (except Easy 8 maybe) is that it's to thin, and can be lost in a split of a sec.
As far as I can see, there are only two ways to solve this: eather increase teir health eather make them more deadly on their specific targets. Meaning eather they kill faster and this way they have a chance to survive the fight, eather they have more health and need to receive more shots in order to be killed. Just making them cheaper won't bring any good.

No mention of OKW Panzer IV's?

You want the "Call in units that desperately need buffing so we remember they exist" thread

KV1 is fine; it's what a call in tank should be.

Not a game winner by itself but an interesting option


I also won't hear a bad word against A-Grens; they are fun and fine; also what a call in unit should be

+++++++++++

"Call in units that desperately need buffing so we remember they exist"

Mechanised Grenadier Group

Mechanised Assault Group

In both cases because you are paying a ridiculous premium for the unarmed metal box they come in

Panzer IV Battle Group

Because at 9CP I always find myself thinking I need a shittier version of the OKH P-IV that hit the field 10 minutes ago to fight the 34/85s and IS2's that will be along soon




"Call in units that desperately need buffing to be relevant"

M10 Tank irritant

Partisans

M42-45mm

Conscripts (You know it is true)


"Call in units that are good but people desperately need to shut up about"

Tigers

Tiger Ace

T34/85

IS2

ISU-152


"Call in units that desperately need to be fixed"

Jagdtiger

Let me fix it

"Call in units that desperately need buffing to be relevant"

M10 Tank irritant

Partisans


Conscripts (You know it is true)

...

"Call in units that desperately need to be fixed"

Jagdtiger
ISU-152

Slightly OT but:

Both ISU and Jagd are fine in what they do

The only thing problematic with the Jagd is the "Tank that shoots through walls" thing it has going

++++++++++

And cons are about as relevant after early game as Agrens...

"Call in units that desperately need buffing to be relevant"

Conscripts (You know it is true)

Today I learned, Cons are call-in infantry.
Cons are fine units, after they gain veterancy, which they should do if you don't throw them away. Molotovs and AT-Nades make them really usefull. Just keep in mind, that your russians farmers are not elite infantry, and won't be able to deal with LMG-Grens if you charge head on. Flank and get them close, unless you fight enemies with MP's or STG 44's.

Slightly OT but:

Both ISU and Jagd are fine in what they do

The only thing problematic with the Jagd is the "Tank that shoots through walls" thing it has going

++++++++++

And cons are about as relevant after early game as Agrens...

No the ISU is not fine and everyone knows it. One-shooting Infantry Squads while being effective vs tanks is broken as hell as well as a tank with 320 dmg and 80 range than can shoot through walls.

There is a reason why many soviets play T1+ T2 and just wait for the ISU, because it works.

Just keep in mind, that your russians farmers are not elite infantry

That's rather beside the point, but let's not forget that the name "conscripts" is a bit deceitful in that most of the troops both on the German and Soviet side were conscripts - that was the rule, not the exception.

Just keep in mind, that your russians farmers are not elite infantry, and won't be able to deal with LMG-Grens if you charge head on. Flank and get them close, unless you fight enemies with MP's or STG 44's.

Just keep in mind that these russian farmers at the time of multiplayer(which is late war where axis forces were in rapid retreat) are veteran shock armies of Stalingrad and veteran guard armies of other fronts, while axis armies were already encircled and destroyed/captured and the existing ones were battered and full of rapidly and poorly trained conscripts.

MP isn't happening in 1941, its happening in 1944-45 and the quality of armies shifted towards soviets being better equipped and more experienced then axis despite axis having a handful of heaviest tanks.

Sadly it isn't even remotely accurately portrayed in multiplayer because of relic bias that whatever had black cross on it was vastly superior no matter what.

You don´t want to compare history taken place with this game, do you Katitof?

No the ISU is not fine and everyone knows it. One-shooting Infantry Squads while being effective vs tanks is broken as hell as well as a tank with 320 dmg and 80 range than can shoot through walls.

There is a reason why many soviets play T1+ T2 and just wait for the ISU, because it works.

And the Soviets cannot be allowed to have something that works.


Let's just drop this now and go back to the OP?

I regret starting this tangent

The Tiger tank needs to be buffed up a little bit. I feel like it lost its persona as a "Tiger Tank", now is just target practice for my Jacksons.