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russian armor

How to fix ISU-152 and JagdTiger

7 Nov 2014, 16:53 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2014, 15:45 PMnigo
to all realism players on the thread:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/244450/


GO GO GO


Yeaaa, I wish there was a way to trap there all the realism followers. I wonder if it would take a day or less for them to absolutely hate any form of realism.
7 Nov 2014, 16:57 PM
#42
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Ok you did'not destroyed it, but you effectively counter it. You did a good job.


But 1 min later it showed up again and what then? Enemy won't fall into the same trap twice so how I'm supposed to destroy it?

It can stand between building what makes flanking almost impossible, yet it still can snipe vehicles. This is terrible design.
7 Nov 2014, 17:11 PM
#43
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824



Ok you did'not destroyed it, but you effectively counter it. You did a good job.


This guy gets it^. Too many people focus on what can kill what and not what can counter what. All ladder modes are VP attrition, not annihilation. This game is based around unit preservation, this is what drives people crazy with units that can instant kill. ISU can instant kill infantry out of fow and Jagdtiger can shot through building(which provides fow) to seriously damage tanks.
7 Nov 2014, 17:13 PM
#44
avatar of Ace of Swords

Posts: 219

Why not make the ISU an heavy tank hunter like the elephant? Completely disregarding all of it's AI capabilities, currently it's just stupidly strong because it covers hard av and AI, if it did either of them well I would be fine with it, it can't stay like this.

For the JT side, I think it should keep it's cost but to keep it unique it could retain it's ability to shot through obstacles, but for each obstacle the shot passes through it should lose 15% damage if it's technically doable, so for example, if it's shot went through and house it would lose 30% damage as it traverses 2 walls.
7 Nov 2014, 17:57 PM
#45
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Just make the Jagdtiger not able to shoot through walls... and perhaps lower the aoe of the ISU or decrease the ISU range
7 Nov 2014, 18:55 PM
#46
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

All good comments, but there is nothing a good team can't beat !

The fear those units inspire are important, too important to remove it.
IN 4vs4, ISU or JP alone won't give you victory, but a good team will.

I change my mind about those 2 units after watching a lot of high ranking matches. Those units are important yes, but they don't win the match. it's bold innovative moves, good timing and team play that bring victory.

I remember a match where Bartonpl bait,flank and killed an ISU-152, what a brilliant move!

This is a hard game to learn and master, especially for Allies, so to succeed, we must put some sweet into it. For the satisfaction it bring, it's worth the investment.

The more i learn it, the more i find that COH2 is a great game.

Thanks.
7 Nov 2014, 20:31 PM
#47
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

All good comments, but there is nothing a good team can't beat !

The fear those units inspire are important, too important to remove it.
IN 4vs4, ISU or JP alone won't give you victory, but a good team will.

I change my mind about those 2 units after watching a lot of high ranking matches. Those units are important yes, but they don't win the match. it's bold innovative moves, good timing and team play that bring victory.

I remember a match where Bartonpl bait,flank and killed an ISU-152, what a brilliant move!

This is a hard game to learn and master, especially for Allies, so to succeed, we must put some sweet into it. For the satisfaction it bring, it's worth the investment.

The more i learn it, the more i find that COH2 is a great game.

Thanks.


That is true, of course good teamwork and communication is essential to good strategic play. Coming form a fun factor prospective though, these units create frustrating experiences for the receiving opponent. These units offer fairly low-risk to the user who calls them in.
7 Nov 2014, 21:36 PM
#48
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2014, 15:19 PMBurts
And in order to hit the target you need to aim, not just reload. Aiming takes time , which is why there is a difference in theoretical rate of fire and actual rate of fire.

That makes it even worse though. Both tanks have to aim, both tanks fire, both tanks miss. But here's the kicker, the Panther stays trained on the IS-2 while it reloads. The IS-2 has to level the gun, reload, then aim again. Not only does the Panther reload faster, but it may also make adjustments to it's aim while the IS-2 reloads slower and has to aim every shot as if it were the first.


Why not make the ISU an heavy tank hunter like the elephant? Completely disregarding all of it's AI capabilities.

Because that doesn't make sense, a 152mm Howitzer firing HE Shells, but it can't hurt Infantry? That's like having the short-barrel StuG III E take the SU-85's job.
7 Nov 2014, 22:08 PM
#49
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Well all you guys are proposing are hypothetical 1v1 scenarios, i am sure in actual combat, it aint just a 1v1 tank slugfest.

plus the IS2 isn't really a tank killer, it was meant to be a breakthrough tank that fired high explosive rounds that destroyed bunkers, fortifications, emplacements, etc. So all this talk about which tank would pwn each other does not belong on this topic.
8 Nov 2014, 00:49 AM
#50
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

All good comments, but there is nothing a good team can't beat !

The fear those units inspire are important, too important to remove it.
IN 4vs4, ISU or JP alone won't give you victory, but a good team will.

I change my mind about those 2 units after watching a lot of high ranking matches. Those units are important yes, but they don't win the match. it's bold innovative moves, good timing and team play that bring victory.

I remember a match where Bartonpl bait,flank and killed an ISU-152, what a brilliant move!

This is a hard game to learn and master, especially for Allies, so to succeed, we must put some sweet into it. For the satisfaction it bring, it's worth the investment.

The more i learn it, the more i find that COH2 is a great game.

Thanks.


yes. a good team can beat a lesser team with JT or ISU. just because they are counter-able, that does not mean isu should squad wipe regularly or jt should one shot light tanks and two shot most of allied vehicles from a mile away disregarding the terrain.
8 Nov 2014, 00:55 AM
#51
avatar of HazardousKing

Posts: 32


That makes it even worse though. Both tanks have to aim, both tanks fire, both tanks miss. But here's the kicker, the Panther stays trained on the IS-2 while it reloads. The IS-2 has to level the gun, reload, then aim again. Not only does the Panther reload faster, but it may also make adjustments to it's aim while the IS-2 reloads slower and has to aim every shot as if it were the first.



Because that doesn't make sense, a 152mm Howitzer firing HE Shells, but it can't hurt Infantry? That's like having the short-barrel StuG III E take the SU-85's job.



I guess the ISU152 could use AP shells there were a few shells of that variety made for the ML20 gun but the HE shells were better for anti vehicle and anti personel.
8 Nov 2014, 03:26 AM
#52
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042



Yeaaa, I wish there was a way to trap there all the realism followers. I wonder if it would take a day or less for them to absolutely hate any form of realism.



Ranges are too short in Men of War...
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