Login

russian armor

Luchs and 222

5 Nov 2014, 19:48 PM
#1
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

So, I've watched ImperialDane stream (yea i know :snfBarton: ) and he streamed some replay where soviets captured luchsa and it literally killed every inf that OKW and ost had, even obers were going down with first burst, but when i compare 222 to Luchs i see that 222 main gun is a crap, with main gun you can't kill inf, only MG's are doing some damage.


While both vehicles use same gun, why they are so much different? and why ffs Luchs is such a pain in the ass :snfBarton:
5 Nov 2014, 19:51 PM
#2
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

5 Nov 2014, 20:04 PM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

ML-20 howitzer and ISU also use same weapon, yet I don't see ISU having 250 range.

Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.

Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.

SU-76 for some reason isn't as awesome as ZiS-3 in AT despite using exactly the same model of 76mm gun.

Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42? Its same weapon.

List goes on and on.
5 Nov 2014, 20:23 PM
#4
avatar of VIPUKS

Posts: 431 | Subs: 1

Deal with it. Dont forget that pz2 cost nice ammount of fuel.
5 Nov 2014, 20:28 PM
#5
avatar of Ace of Swords

Posts: 219

I'd like to see the 222 cost increased but made resistant to small arms fire, at the moment I mostly find it to be trash, high micro low reward, and I don't ever recall it killing anything on retreat.
5 Nov 2014, 20:35 PM
#6
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1162

Because when you field a Luchs, you could field a P4.

5 Nov 2014, 20:36 PM
#7
avatar of TNrg

Posts: 640

I'd like to see the 222 cost increased but made resistant to small arms fire, at the moment I mostly find it to be trash, high micro low reward, and I don't ever recall it killing anything on retreat.


I think it's a pretty good unit over all and a nice counter to the USF M20, unless you hit a mine.
If you have a vet 3 scout car and use a doctrine with spotting scopes it's basically a constant recon run ability :snfPeter:
5 Nov 2014, 20:37 PM
#8
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.

Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.

Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42?

The first two don't count because it's supposed to represent the skill of the units. There's nothing 'skill' based about the Luchs firing faster even though it's the same gun.

The last one I think you accidentally a word.


I'd like to see the 222 cost increased but made resistant to small arms fire, at the moment I mostly find it to be trash, high micro low reward, and I don't ever recall it killing anything on retreat.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, maybe the 221 would be worth using then. Unless you're going for the 222 upgrade, it's seriously not worth it.
5 Nov 2014, 20:52 PM
#9
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123


The first two don't count because it's supposed to represent the skill of the units. There's nothing 'skill' based about the Luchs firing faster even though it's the same gun.

The last one I think you accidentally a word.



I wouldn't be opposed to that, maybe the 221 would be worth using then. Unless you're going for the 222 upgrade, it's seriously not worth it.



Well instead of skill you could say that the panzer II is a better chassis and manages the recoil of the gun better than the 222, which results in the better lethality of the luchs.

There's ALWAYS a way to bullshit! It even may be true!
5 Nov 2014, 20:54 PM
#10
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Well instead of skill you could say that the panzer II is a better chassis and manages the recoil of the gun better than the 222, which results in the better lethality of the luchs.


That doesn't explain the fire rate discrepancies.
5 Nov 2014, 22:10 PM
#11
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123



That doesn't explain the fire rate discrepancies.


Sure it can. Maybe the RPM on the gun was lowered because it's an armored car and not a tank and the mount cannot handle recoil as well. Also, you don't think a larger turret and chassis results in faster reloading too? It certainly does.

Honestly, I can keep making up semi-bullshit stuff all day, but this is the way relic balances and that's that...
5 Nov 2014, 22:17 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Sure it can. Maybe the RPM on the gun was lowered because it's an armored car and not a tank and the mount cannot handle recoil as well. Also, you don't think a larger turret and chassis results in faster reloading too? It certainly does.

Honestly, I can keep making up semi-bullshit stuff all day, but this is the way relic balances and that's that...


You do know that gun was loaded like big, fat HMG? Its called autocannon for a reason.
Thou it really doesn't matter, both units are balanced around their costs.
5 Nov 2014, 22:26 PM
#13
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

Luchs is a great little unit for its cost, Wish I could say the same about the 222.

222 needs something, It never feels worth its cost, And always feels like a total throwaway unit.

I almost feel like it needs more damage on its up-gun or needs some of its old health back.
5 Nov 2014, 22:34 PM
#14
avatar of butterfingers158

Posts: 239

Because when you field a Luchs, you could field a P4.



Wasn't aware of the huge amount of 9 minute P4s running around
5 Nov 2014, 23:02 PM
#15
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



You do know that gun was loaded like big, fat HMG? Its called autocannon for a reason.
Thou it really doesn't matter, both units are balanced around their costs.


not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.

the 222 is really shitty though. by the time it comes out hard counters area available to all factions and it has meh surviveability even against small arms. the M20 has similar issues but is fully independent because of the crew repair.
5 Nov 2014, 23:15 PM
#16
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.
Someone mentioned it in another thread. Training. How else are you going to depict a squad of trained Grenadiers who fire their rifles and a squad of guys with less training who are forced to fight for the Germans?

Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.
Training.


Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42? Its same weapon.
Training. Potato farmers vs actual soldiers.
5 Nov 2014, 23:21 PM
#17
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
Someone mentioned it in another thread. Training. How else are you going to depict a squad of trained Grenadiers who fire their rifles and a squad of guys with less training who are forced to fight for the Germans?

Training.

Training. Potato farmers vs actual soldiers.


>Implying training matters at all in the age of machine guns and flamethrowers, which were both hilariously easy to use
5 Nov 2014, 23:22 PM
#18
avatar of schnuersi

Posts: 56


not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.


That is an over simplification to the point of being false.

Some modern ACs use belt feeding. Wich is only an option because of the development of dual feed wich allows quick ammo change in case of need.

The 40 mm L70 from Bofors still uses clip feeding in a lot of application. But clip handling is often handled automatically or semi automatically.

The KwK 38 as used on the Luchs and the KwK 30 as used on the 222 are in theory fully automatic but they are usually used in semi auto. Full auto fire is not accurate and will empty the 10 round magazines too fast. They also don't carry that much ammo. The KwK 38 cycles faster than the 30 though. Allmost twice as fast. 450 rpm compared to 280 rpm.

According to the animation the 222 actually uses AP shots and the Luchs HEI shells. This could explain the difference in anti personell effectiveness. But the anti vehicle effectiveness would be better.

5 Nov 2014, 23:29 PM
#19
avatar of schnuersi

Posts: 56


>Implying training matters at all in the age of machine guns and flamethrowers, which were both hilariously easy to use


^^... because as everybody knows from action movies aiming doesn't matter with machine guns or automatic weapons in general...
Training is what matters most. The gun is secondary at best. A well trained soldier with a bolt action rifle will more often than not succeed vs an untrained militiaman with a machine gun.
The fact than a MG shoots faster just means more shots can miss in a shorter time. Wich is exactly what will happen without proper training.

Modern armies put more effort in picking and training their gunners than their rifleman. Why is that necessary if these are so easy to use?

A flamethrower is a extremly complicated to use, unwieldy and dangerous device. An untained person will most likely present a bigger danger to himself and his mates than the enemy. Its also heavy and bulky. Even carrying if around needs time to practice and getting used to.
6 Nov 2014, 00:55 AM
#20
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123



not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.


the 222 is really shitty though. by the time it comes out hard counters area available to all factions and it has meh surviveability even against small arms. the M20 has similar issues but is fully independent because of the crew repair.






exactly on both points. I've seen the 222 used really well in 1v1s but the m20 lasts longer typically.

However, you do need munitions for the m20 armor skirts and the smoke discharger. On the flipside, the 222 upgrades its gun instead of survivability.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Sweden 80
unknown 1

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

279 users are online: 279 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48731
Welcome our newest member, may88forex
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM