Luchs and 222
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While both vehicles use same gun, why they are so much different? and why ffs Luchs is such a pain in the ass
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.
Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.
SU-76 for some reason isn't as awesome as ZiS-3 in AT despite using exactly the same model of 76mm gun.
Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42? Its same weapon.
List goes on and on.
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I'd like to see the 222 cost increased but made resistant to small arms fire, at the moment I mostly find it to be trash, high micro low reward, and I don't ever recall it killing anything on retreat.
I think it's a pretty good unit over all and a nice counter to the USF M20, unless you hit a mine.
If you have a vet 3 scout car and use a doctrine with spotting scopes it's basically a constant recon run ability
Posts: 4928
Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.
Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.
Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42?
The first two don't count because it's supposed to represent the skill of the units. There's nothing 'skill' based about the Luchs firing faster even though it's the same gun.
The last one I think you accidentally a word.
I'd like to see the 222 cost increased but made resistant to small arms fire, at the moment I mostly find it to be trash, high micro low reward, and I don't ever recall it killing anything on retreat.
I wouldn't be opposed to that, maybe the 221 would be worth using then. Unless you're going for the 222 upgrade, it's seriously not worth it.
Posts: 123
The first two don't count because it's supposed to represent the skill of the units. There's nothing 'skill' based about the Luchs firing faster even though it's the same gun.
The last one I think you accidentally a word.
I wouldn't be opposed to that, maybe the 221 would be worth using then. Unless you're going for the 222 upgrade, it's seriously not worth it.
Well instead of skill you could say that the panzer II is a better chassis and manages the recoil of the gun better than the 222, which results in the better lethality of the luchs.
There's ALWAYS a way to bullshit! It even may be true!
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Well instead of skill you could say that the panzer II is a better chassis and manages the recoil of the gun better than the 222, which results in the better lethality of the luchs.
That doesn't explain the fire rate discrepancies.
Posts: 123
That doesn't explain the fire rate discrepancies.
Sure it can. Maybe the RPM on the gun was lowered because it's an armored car and not a tank and the mount cannot handle recoil as well. Also, you don't think a larger turret and chassis results in faster reloading too? It certainly does.
Honestly, I can keep making up semi-bullshit stuff all day, but this is the way relic balances and that's that...
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Sure it can. Maybe the RPM on the gun was lowered because it's an armored car and not a tank and the mount cannot handle recoil as well. Also, you don't think a larger turret and chassis results in faster reloading too? It certainly does.
Honestly, I can keep making up semi-bullshit stuff all day, but this is the way relic balances and that's that...
You do know that gun was loaded like big, fat HMG? Its called autocannon for a reason.
Thou it really doesn't matter, both units are balanced around their costs.
Posts: 322
222 needs something, It never feels worth its cost, And always feels like a total throwaway unit.
I almost feel like it needs more damage on its up-gun or needs some of its old health back.
Posts: 239
Because when you field a Luchs, you could field a P4.
Wasn't aware of the huge amount of 9 minute P4s running around
Posts: 2470
You do know that gun was loaded like big, fat HMG? Its called autocannon for a reason.
Thou it really doesn't matter, both units are balanced around their costs.
not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.
the 222 is really shitty though. by the time it comes out hard counters area available to all factions and it has meh surviveability even against small arms. the M20 has similar issues but is fully independent because of the crew repair.
Posts: 978
Osttruppen and Obersoldaten also both use Kar98 rifles.Someone mentioned it in another thread. Training. How else are you going to depict a squad of trained Grenadiers who fire their rifles and a squad of guys with less training who are forced to fight for the Germans?
Same weapon as well for paratroopers and RETs.Training.
Training. Potato farmers vs actual soldiers.
Why partisan LMG42 does only 50% of gren LMG42? Its same weapon.
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedSomeone mentioned it in another thread. Training. How else are you going to depict a squad of trained Grenadiers who fire their rifles and a squad of guys with less training who are forced to fight for the Germans?
Training.
Training. Potato farmers vs actual soldiers.
>Implying training matters at all in the age of machine guns and flamethrowers, which were both hilariously easy to use
Posts: 56
not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.
That is an over simplification to the point of being false.
Some modern ACs use belt feeding. Wich is only an option because of the development of dual feed wich allows quick ammo change in case of need.
The 40 mm L70 from Bofors still uses clip feeding in a lot of application. But clip handling is often handled automatically or semi automatically.
The KwK 38 as used on the Luchs and the KwK 30 as used on the 222 are in theory fully automatic but they are usually used in semi auto. Full auto fire is not accurate and will empty the 10 round magazines too fast. They also don't carry that much ammo. The KwK 38 cycles faster than the 30 though. Allmost twice as fast. 450 rpm compared to 280 rpm.
According to the animation the 222 actually uses AP shots and the Luchs HEI shells. This could explain the difference in anti personell effectiveness. But the anti vehicle effectiveness would be better.
Posts: 56
>Implying training matters at all in the age of machine guns and flamethrowers, which were both hilariously easy to use
^^... because as everybody knows from action movies aiming doesn't matter with machine guns or automatic weapons in general...
Training is what matters most. The gun is secondary at best. A well trained soldier with a bolt action rifle will more often than not succeed vs an untrained militiaman with a machine gun.
The fact than a MG shoots faster just means more shots can miss in a shorter time. Wich is exactly what will happen without proper training.
Modern armies put more effort in picking and training their gunners than their rifleman. Why is that necessary if these are so easy to use?
A flamethrower is a extremly complicated to use, unwieldy and dangerous device. An untained person will most likely present a bigger danger to himself and his mates than the enemy. Its also heavy and bulky. Even carrying if around needs time to practice and getting used to.
Posts: 123
not all autocannons work the same; the boffers 40mm uses stripper clips. modern autocannons/chainguns do use belt feed because it's more efficient.
the 222 is really shitty though. by the time it comes out hard counters area available to all factions and it has meh surviveability even against small arms. the M20 has similar issues but is fully independent because of the crew repair.
exactly on both points. I've seen the 222 used really well in 1v1s but the m20 lasts longer typically.
However, you do need munitions for the m20 armor skirts and the smoke discharger. On the flipside, the 222 upgrades its gun instead of survivability.
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