Obersoldaten and stuff

The game is designed about combined arms being effective.

If your enemy uses pumas, obersoldaten, HMGs together you likewise need a combined arms army to take that on.

That means at gun, Stuart, rifles with upgrades.

And then the better Micro, positioning and awareness decides the battle.

Therefore 'vehicles' is the proper answer to your obers. If you say 'but the puma' then you simply don't have a army that can respond to all threats and you deserve to lose.

Haha... this is funny seeing as how OKW is one of the most blobbiest factions that seem to rely the LEAST on combined arms. All they need is Schreck VOlks + a little bit a elite infantry +Puma/Stuka/optional luchs into a Panther/KT/Jagd

OKW gets a plethora of strong units that require the other factions to be on their A game in order to counter while OKW can just rely on a select number of units to be effective. Even the most barebones Soviet player needs HMGS, AT Guns, infantry + elite infantry

It doesnt help that OKW equipment is superior to USF's. Obers roll over ALL infantry, removing HMG's and AT guns while OKW armor handles the weak armor. Definitely player's fault for choosing to play USF with units that get countered so easily.

Also, still no justification why LMG34 has twice the DPS as LMG42.

Did i mention for the second time the early game volks with the schrecks bought with the muni OKW doesnt spend on obers? What USF tanks?

So OKW is a blobbing faction. So it's soviet faction. Does this means they are both broken? Spamming is the easiest way to have an army that means something. Some people are doing it, some aren't.
Wanna OKW stop blobbing? Modify its design entirely, nerf a part of its units but give them a normal resources income. Who would need an OKW with same power as Ostheer but at 66% fuel?

nah OKW blobs the most from wat i see

So OKW is a blobbing faction. So it's soviet faction. Does this means they are both broken? Spamming is the easiest way to have an army that means something. Some people are doing it, some aren't.
Wanna OKW stop blobbing? Modify its design entirely, nerf a part of its units but give them a normal resources income. Who would need an OKW with same power as Ostheer but at 66% fuel?

Soviets CAN blob, but it isn't as effective as other factions because Soviet units are more fragile and lack the DPS of other units. Blobbing = suicide as Soviets. The only unit that can be blobbed and still work are Shock Troops.

So OKW is a blobbing faction. So it's soviet faction.

Oh yea, these overpowered conscript blobs.... Much better then USF bar/LMG rifles or wehr LMG gren blobs....

You play completely different game then everyone else, right?

So OKW is a blobbing faction. So it's soviet faction. Does this means they are both broken? Spamming is the easiest way to have an army that means something. Some people are doing it, some aren't.
Wanna OKW stop blobbing? Modify its design entirely, nerf a part of its units but give them a normal resources income. Who would need an OKW with same power as Ostheer but at 66% fuel?

This is the problem with faction differences for differences' sake. If they gave them regular income (which is easier to balance in 2v2 matches and up), modified the costs to copensate, and left the unit composition essentially the same, it would STILL be a hugely different faction but easier to balance.

I know they are trying hard at Relic, and I know they care about the game. But I have issues with two things they have a fetish for and one of them makes balance too hard, and that is the fetish for "difference".

Added: If they simply increased income to 100% and increased fuel costs by 50% they would change nothing in the faction and solve some of the 2v2+ problems. The faction wouldn't change one bit.

(The other is the belief in the myth of superior German military presence and technology. More on that another time. But yes, most of it is just myth.)

How about switching either vet 3 or 4 bonus with the ability to fire their lmg on the move rather than it being there from the start. Also maybe make the lmg34 only slightly more effective (12-13dps) than the gren lmg42 but give an upgrade for a second mg for 60-80 muni. Could also fiddle with the suppression and make it a 10-15 muni ability.

They'd still be very dangerous once upgraded and vetted (little less tough from the the missing received accuracy vet level) but they couldn't just run around spraying everything from the get go and would have a guards esque propensity for dropping lmg's.

Can we just agree anyone can blob?

OKW does so more often IMO because AT squad is cheap and they have really good AI squads, so the blobs are too strong. I think Obersoldaten are fine, on their own... It's just with Panzerschreck Volks they are too strong, normally you could kill them with tanks, but Volks render that useless. Problem extends from bad design, OKW are the Axis Soviets. Just poorly designed in units, teching and performance.

So OKW is a blobbing faction. So it's soviet faction. Does this means they are both broken? Spamming is the easiest way to have an army that means something. Some people are doing it, some aren't.
Wanna OKW stop blobbing? Modify its design entirely, nerf a part of its units but give them a normal resources income. Who would need an OKW with same power as Ostheer but at 66% fuel?

I whant to see how soviet blob win ag OKW blob .

Anyone can blob obviously, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, but the real question is, how god damn effective is that blob, especially late game for those axis (I'll be nice today) lovers? Can it be countered reasonably with the faction of choice(*cough* stuka *cough* b4/katy *cough*, does the blob constantly force you to rage quit every time you want a decent game, how OP is a faction's blob, is it fair to have said blob, bla bla bla who gives a balance.

Now back to the topic at hand: Obersoldaten are a very effective unit for 400mp, especially at vet 5, now obviously people complain about OKW having a resource disadvantage but that resource disadvantage doesn't involve manpower. So obviously getting a unit that is able to reasonably kill most things at most ranges for 400 mp seems like a good deal. I understand Obers are needed to counter things like shocks, mass blobs, snipers, etc..., however I feel they need at the very least a decrease in the vet bonuses they receive, especially at vet 4-5, because at that point it'll take either an armor adv, precision arty, or a lucky demo to wipe them out. I feel vet 3 lmg grens are a little powerful(it's a tough issue to work on, for now it can still be sorta dealt with, so it's not priority I feel) but not as powerful as vet 4-5 Obers.

OKW is Soviet faction? Faction with stock elite infantry, stock heavy tank, stock basic infantry that scale super well that can hold AT weapons is a Soviet faction? OKW is its own thing - NOT hindered in the tier system as to rely on commanders.

Soviets can only spam maxims, or cheese their way through m3 - sniper - Guards, and OKW is a Soviet faction?

Can i have what ya'll are smoking?

OKW is Soviet faction? Faction with stock elite infantry, stock heavy tank, stock basic infantry that scale super well that can hold AT weapons is a Soviet faction? OKW is its own thing - NOT hindered in the tier system as to rely on commanders.

Soviets can only spam maxims, or cheese their way through m3 - sniper - Guards, and OKW is a Soviet faction?

Can i have what ya'll are smoking?

I meant in the reason that OKW to me isn't well designed, same as Soviets, as you say Soviets rely on call-ins a lot. OKW has design problems, like fast pumas that can counter light tanks and medium tanks alike, and Volks blobs rolling over tanks. Just a comparison.

It doesnt help that OKW equipment is superior to USF's. Obers roll over ALL infantry, removing HMG's and AT guns while OKW armor handles the weak armor. Definitely player's fault for choosing to play USF with units that get countered so easily.

Whoever tries to run into a combined arms force of the US faction will get squad wipes.
If OKW is so easy mode, why aren't you top 10 in all of their modes?

Whoever tries to run into a combined arms force of the US faction will get squad wipes.
If OKW is so easy mode, why aren't you top 10 in all of their modes?

Where did you get OKW easy mode from? This is an Obersoldaten thread. Obersoldaten are too cost efficient, and there is no justification for their LMG that has twice the DPS as the LMG42. "Whoever tries to run into a combined arms force of the US faction will get squad wipes" - as in, wiping out all their support teams. Every game USF blobs rifle with BAR's/M1919's/Bazookas because those are hard to wipe and are most effective. The .50 cal dies too fast, and Obers have too much DPS to allow the USF AT gun to move. Sum of obers vs . Support teams: crew tries to shoot, gunner gets killed. Next gunner comes up, dies halfway in position and team is wiped. I have never lost to full "USF combined arms" in terms of support teams, and i have never bothered trying any more of it as USF after the first few fails.

@Axis: OKW is as broken as Soviets to an extent , you mean. Sorry about that, too riled up in this thread. I assumed in terms of playstyle and unit performance. Both factions could use some redesigning . :/

Again, sorry.

Whoever tries to run into a combined arms force of the US faction will get squad wipes.
If OKW is so easy mode, why aren't you top 10 in all of their modes?

that logic... it takes more than a strong unit to be a top player. youll still lose to better players even with obers... but vs someone with similar skill youll have an unfair advantage. i had many a game where i was fighting someone as (terribly) skilled as myself and obers turned what used to be an intense back and forth game into a r33k-walks-all-over-your-pityful-forces-mess

@Axis: OKW is as broken as Soviets to an extent , you mean. Sorry about that, too riled up in this thread. I assumed in terms of playstyle and unit performance. Both factions could use some redesigning . :/

Again, sorry.

It's okay miscommunication that's all.

I'm fine with obers having great defensive vet bonuses but their dps is just too high. The high dps also makes it easier to vet them, compounding the problem.

During the arguments of Shocks vs Obers, there is another factor to be mixed in. Penetration on the lmg34 is greater than 1, so the 1.5 armor is partly defeated.

Obers are OK and a bit UP against paras to be honest. Having all 3 trucks converted as requirement could be a fair cahnge though.

How is blobbing fun?!?! It has to be extremely boring, it takes the strategy out of this game, I can't comprehend. Blobbing should never ever work... (99%) of the time