Obersoldaten and stuff

The USF At gun? The one that requires a gimp tier to get, only starts competing with other AT guns when it's vet 1 + uses an ability, has fairly low pen even when using AP rounds and gets decrewed in seconds because its 4 men? Yeah sure, that totally makes up for shit AT like the Stuart and Bazooka. USf AT is worse than OKW's, that's just a friggin fact. They have one good non-doctrinal AT unit, the Jackson, which requires an ability to really shine and dies to a sneeze. Compared to shrecks, Puma (which is an amazing unit, not a moderate one by any means), Jagdpanzer and Panther? There's no competition here.

Shreck volks are the best AT squad in the game for cost by a country mile. PGrens cost a bit too much and are pretty fragile, and give up too much AI power. Guards are good for Button, which almost all axis vehicles can counter instantly with smoke. Bazookas are pure shit. Shrecked volks don't give up much AI power since they got a good grenade, are very cheap, and become incredibly tough thanks to their insane veterancy. I'm not saying they need a nerf, just stating facts, OKW cannot complain aout having poor AT at all.

And I'm OK with OKW having the best AT in the game, since they lack medium tanks and their fuel-based options are usually quite costly. Puma, Jagdpanzer, Panther, shrecks- all these units are very good, but not OP. They do their job well, that's it.

The problem is when you add superinfantry like Obers (or Pfusiliers, or JLI, or Falls) to the mix, which does not suffer from the ressource penalty, apart from Pfusiliers G43, and allows you to easily reign supreme in the infantry war unless your opponent uses snipers or a big US blob. Shit, even Sturmpioneers can fare very well lategame if you keep them vetted. OKW vehicles being very good makes sense, given the ressource penalty; OKW infantry being almost strictly superior while not suffering from said penalty is not fine. Obers are just the most dramatic example of that.

*clap* *clap* this man gets it!!

The USF At gun? The one that requires a gimp tier to get, only starts competing with other AT guns when it's vet 1 + uses an ability, has fairly low pen even when using AP rounds and gets decrewed in seconds because its 4 men? Yeah sure, that totally makes up for shit AT like the Stuart and Bazooka. USf AT is worse than OKW's, that's just a friggin fact. They have one good non-doctrinal AT unit, the Jackson, which requires an ability to really shine and dies to a sneeze. Compared to shrecks, Puma (which is an amazing unit, not a moderate one by any means), Jagdpanzer and Panther? There's no competition here.

Shreck volks are the best AT squad in the game for cost by a country mile. PGrens cost a bit too much and are pretty fragile, and give up too much AI power. Guards are good for Button, which almost all axis vehicles can counter instantly with smoke. Bazookas are pure shit. Shrecked volks don't give up much AI power since they got a good grenade, are very cheap, and become incredibly tough thanks to their insane veterancy. I'm not saying they need a nerf, just stating facts, OKW cannot complain aout having poor AT at all.

And I'm OK with OKW having the best AT in the game, since they lack medium tanks and their fuel-based options are usually quite costly. Puma, Jagdpanzer, Panther, shrecks- all these units are very good, but not OP. They do their job well, that's it.

The problem is when you add superinfantry like Obers (or Pfusiliers, or JLI, or Falls) to the mix, which does not suffer from the ressource penalty, apart from Pfusiliers G43, and allows you to easily reign supreme in the infantry war unless your opponent uses snipers or a big US blob. Shit, even Sturmpioneers can fare very well lategame if you keep them vetted. OKW vehicles being very good makes sense, given the ressource penalty; OKW infantry being almost strictly superior while not suffering from said penalty is not fine. Obers are just the most dramatic example of that.

I am fine with Obers getting a small long range DPS nerf for the LMG or even a MP cost reduction with a REASONABLE munition cost for the LMG upgrade. Just remember that a lot of OKWs units are very one sided, either extreme AT or extreme AI. This means that some of their AI units are going to be VERY good at AI, but lousy at AT and vice-verse. One of the few exceptions being the King Tiger, but the whole design of the faction is to build towards that unit. So yes OKW does have SOME of the best AT and AI in the game. The thing though is that they get each of these extremes comes at a different point in the game. You can usually get an Ober squad out at late to mid-game, but you won't be able to get out a Panther or KT until late to very-late game.

Just remember that a lot of OKWs units are very one sided, either extreme AT or extreme AI.

LOL

so i guess volks can only kill infantry

stuka cant significant damage tanks?

fussies dont have at nade?

puma cant kill both ai and tanks well?

flack hq cant damage med tanks?

LOL

People are getting so fired up about certain match ups with tunnel vision focus. For instance they keep coming back to shock troops and how they match up vs Olbersoldaten as if that is the main way to counter them but to me they are so focused on how to make shocks a better counter to Olbersoldaten that they forget about other great counters. My favorites are Katyusha which will decimate a blob and any OS in area at the mid game as well as HM120's which will inflict severe damage and MP drain on OKW. Snipers should be a counter but due to insane DPS at long range they die fast.

My idea is lower the max range of LMG34 as well as long range DPS a bit while leaving mid and close DPS the same then drop individual reinforcement a couple points

LOL

so i guess volks can only kill infantry

stuka cant significant damage tanks?

fussies dont have at nade?

puma cant kill both ai and tanks well?

flack hq cant damage med tanks?

LOL

Puma blows at AI even before you take cost into account. It is a niche mobile light vehicle chaser and tank flanker. I almost never play OKW, mainly OH and SU but I agree that OS is too OP but only at long range. There are many counters to OS that can be on field same time as them or sooner that don't involve shocks.

Puma blows at AI even before you take cost into account. It is a niche mobile light vehicle chaser and tank flanker. I almost never play OKW, mainly OH and SU but I agree that OS is too OP but only at long range. There are many counters to OS that can be on field same time as them or sooner that don't involve shocks.

Cost. its probably the most cost effective vehicle in this game.

it is very good at killing infantry

Cost. its probably the most cost effective vehicle in this game.

it is very good at killing infantry

Since when a single 11 DPS MG is very good at killing infantry?

Since when a single 11 DPS MG is very good at killing infantry?

at range

It's good at killing infantry if players keep dancing their squads at point blank range in front of its MG gun.
People strangely don't expect a machine gun to kill anything.

Since when a single 11 DPS MG is very good at killing infantry?

Since forever? *cough* gren lmg *cough*.
While Puma doesn't have additional 3 Kars, it will stay there for much longer.

Not saying its op or up, just saying its rather effective.

Since when a single 11 DPS MG is very good at killing infantry?

That's pretty much the same DPS as a grenadier LMG42. It won't destroy blobs, but it's not a pure AT vehicle either, and has a great kiting potential. I've seen it with 15-20 kills several time, and it's a very solid vehicle overall. The gun can also snipe a few models. As QueenRatchet has said, the Puma is a very cost-effective vehicle. I swear by it when I play OKW.

The Puma also comes out very early 5-7 minutes, is fast, fairly armored, has smoke, and is good against light vehicles

to be honest though, okw are actually well designed, their tiers are damn useful. its light arty + jadgpanzer and medics in battle group, stukas + pumas and free repairs for mechanized and lastly, obers + luchs + panthers with a flak gun defense.

every tier has a distinct flavour and gives very good units to complement the core of okw with volks, kubels and sturmpios.

also, to be honest, they need obers to scale up against late game infantry, except for the fact that obers are non doctrinal and lmg34 is too damn effective.

there's nothing wrong with obers but everything is fucked with lmg34. get a rear echelon with lmg34 and he is going to rape stuff for a support infantry. lower the damn dps on that thing, give it abit better stats than the lmg42.

or better yet, make these guys proper doctrinal infantry with a hefty munition cost on the lmg34 if its going to stay that way. there's no reason that there are falls/JLI /other building spawning infantry together with obers. they should really limit insane dps elites to 1 type per game.

also, to be honest, they need obers to scale up against late game infantry, except for the fact that obers are non doctrinal and lmg34 is too damn effective.

Obers outscale all other late game infantry currently, by far. This is mostly due to them receiving two -29% received accuracy modifiers through vet, stacked on top of their base -30%.

For comparison, PGrens get one -29% modifier while having a base of -20%.

The LMG DPS would (probably) be fine if they didn't become immune to bullets at high vet.

Obers outscale all other late game infantry currently, by far. This is mostly due to them receiving two -29% received accuracy modifiers through vet, stacked on top of their base -30%.

For comparison, PGrens get one -29% modifier while having a base of -20%.

The LMG DPS would (probably) be fine if they didn't become immune to bullets at high vet.

im saying in general, volks and sturms arent going to cut it mid/late game. they need something better against rifles and soviet elites. they dont need obers, but they need something to scale up late game infantry.

i agree that obers are too damn strong now.

im saying in general, volks and sturms arent going to cut it mid/late game. they need something better against rifles and soviet elites. they dont need obers, but they need something to scale up late game infantry.

Well sure, but right now it's the other factions that have to scale up to Obers (and fail hard at it).

Vet5 obers vs rifles&cons, hell even vs shocks or guards, you people really believe obers and their scaling is "fine"? Suppression alone is a bullshit, why on top of that they need to get immune to small arms as well? Why won't shocks become like them? If anything, its shock troops that are battle hardened veterans of stalingrad and following battles, not some leftovers of axis army that barely got out of hospital.

Some in game footage of vet5 ober out of cover vs some USF troops in cover:

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Some in game footage of vet5 ober out of cover vs some USF troops in cover:

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Bad RNG in that vid Katitof, the Ober missed every single soldier. Here is what normally happens:

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broodwarjc



"Just remember that a lot of OKWs units are very one sided, either extreme AT or extreme AI"

LOL

so i guess volks can only kill infantry

stuka cant significant damage tanks?

fussies dont have at nade?

puma cant kill both ai and tanks well?

flack hq cant damage med tanks?

LOL

U think that stuka is extreme AT?
or fussies are extreme AT?
Puma extreme AI?

Flack ht extreme AT?!?
Dude, flack ht isn't extreme in AI even

Stop whining about the Puma and volks with schrecks.
They were not brought up in this thread because of being awesome or the best AT. But as a counterpoint to why light vehicles don't work as counters towards Obers.

(I don't say I agree with that just thought you'all could use with a reminder of what happened a couple of pages back.)



Stop with latin you don't understand. The Following: "id imagine you lead a sad life, all you do is troll this forum and post the same bs to defend why germans must have overperforming units with the same argument over and over again."

Is not Ad hominen. It is a personal attack sure but the writer doesn't claim the argument is wrong because of that. Rather stating the poster makes the same argument over and over, this still it does nothing to refute an argument.



Now for the funny part: Screaming "Ad Hominem" does nothing to refute the argument put forth. It is not something you accuse someone of, it is something you note and take advantage of in rethorics.

Person A says: "You are so fat you have no idea the sky is blue. "
Person B Says: "AAha Ad hominem attack! I'm right the sky is pink!"

See it does nothing either against or for the argument.