ISU-152 Overnerfed

It's fun to see how the axis fan are thrashing. Try the ISU, try the Soviets for a time and tell me that everything is fine... The ISU is not fun to play as it is now and it doesn't worth it's cost at all. But i would still take a Jagdtiger anytime as it is. Why that strange....

Why They nerfed the ISU ? Because there is much more German players, that mean there would be a lot more German player crying loudly so they had to nerf something. The closest equivalent was the ISU.

They have 2 choices either they revert the ISU152 or they have to improve the other soviets tanks, else the allies will be weaker that they were.

But the Jagdtiger case is different, it's still a beast so it's ok to stay like that. More, the German faction's fan anyway seem to like that way of playing. So Relic plz for them don't revert the Jadgtiger.

Thanks !

Why They nerfed the ISU ? Because there is much more German players, that mean there would be a lot more German player crying loudly so they had to nerf something. The closest equivalent was the ISU.

Sorry but you're talking absolute bullshit.
The ISU was nerfed because it was a tank that killed everything perfectly without any high risks.
Just put a ISU behind the middle VP with 1 or 2 Paks to support and gg.
The soviets didn't need to waste any fuel but the stuff for T1 or T2 so they simplay had to wait until minute 20 or so to get a unit that wiped every infantry and support unit with a single shot. And after 5-10 minutes the second one came on the field.

It's fun to see how the axis fan are thrashing. Try the ISU, try the Soviets for a time and tell me that everything is fine... The ISU is not fun to play as it is now and it doesn't worth it's cost at all. But i would still take a Jagdtiger anytime as it is. Why that strange....

Why They nerfed the ISU ? Because there is much more German players, that mean there would be a lot more German player crying loudly so they had to nerf something. The closest equivalent was the ISU.

They have 2 choices either they revert the ISU152 or they have to improve the other soviets tanks, else the allies will be weaker that they were.

But the Jagdtiger case is different, it's still a beast so it's ok to stay like that. More, the German faction's fan anyway seem to like that way of playing. So Relic plz for them don't revert the Jadgtiger.

Thanks !

Dunno what "axis fan" you are talking about.
I play all factions at a moderately good level and the ISU was a considerably overpowered, habitually gamebreaking issue that needed to be addressed a long time ago, and I will reiterate why: It oneshot squads from extreme ranges and negated infantry veterancy (along with support weaponry, Paks etc.) which almost invariably won the Allies the game unless it was immediately addressed - and that is leaving aside its considerable AT potency.

It's fun to see how the axis fan are thrashing. Try the ISU, try the Soviets for a time and tell me that everything is fine... The ISU is not fun to play as it is now and it doesn't worth it's cost at all. But i would still take a Jagdtiger anytime as it is. Why that strange....

Why They nerfed the ISU ? Because there is much more German players, that mean there would be a lot more German player crying loudly so they had to nerf something. The closest equivalent was the ISU.

They have 2 choices either they revert the ISU152 or they have to improve the other soviets tanks, else the allies will be weaker that they were.

But the Jagdtiger case is different, it's still a beast so it's ok to stay like that. More, the German faction's fan anyway seem to like that way of playing. So Relic plz for them don't revert the Jadgtiger.

Thanks !

The only biased person here is you. I play all factions, Soviets are my most played and favorite, and the ISU was incredibly overpowered as well as being a bullshit unit. There is no defending it.

It's fun to see how the axis fan are thrashing. Try the ISU, try the Soviets for a time and tell me that everything is fine... The ISU is not fun to play as it is now and it doesn't worth it's cost at all. But i would still take a Jagdtiger anytime as it is. Why that strange....

Why They nerfed the ISU ? Because there is much more German players, that mean there would be a lot more German player crying loudly so they had to nerf something. The closest equivalent was the ISU.

They have 2 choices either they revert the ISU152 or they have to improve the other soviets tanks, else the allies will be weaker that they were.

But the Jagdtiger case is different, it's still a beast so it's ok to stay like that. More, the German faction's fan anyway seem to like that way of playing. So Relic plz for them don't revert the Jadgtiger.

Thanks !

After seeing your playercard...no wonder you defend the gamebreaking ISU that much. Just shows me that players that need actually l2p rely so much on this I-Win-button units, because it's a easy victory.

1. The Brummbaer has a smaller aoe value than the isu and it's far more inaccurate, and at least you are able to retreat from this thing instead of getting oneshotted on retreat.

2.The Panzerwerfer is a bad joke if you compare it to the katy, on max range it's just bad and can't hit anything, the ae of it's rockets is very bad too. Gets better on closer ranges though.

3. The Sturmtiger can wipe infantry true, but normally you are able to retreat your squads from it. And it doesn't shoot out of the fog of war and it's hard to hit vehicles with it, it seems you haven't played for a few patches to me.

And the most stuff you are calling here "oneshot" machines are easy avoidable so it's more a ltp issue.

Now, back to the isu, it's not overnerfed, it's very strong vs infantry, even though i would have liked a button for HE and AP more than this micro intensive unit. Against any fast moving target it's rather bad.

1. The Brummbar has 6 AOE, as does the ISU, this can be found on the changelog: specifically pages 1 and 4. The difference in scatter and anti-vehicle value is explained by the fact that it is a much cheeper vehicle, a little under 50% cheaper in terms of fuel cost, and it it much more mobile. I usually build 1 brummbar when I play wehr because I prefer teching straight to T4 over using tigers.

2. The panzerwerfer is not an area denial weapon like the katy, it is a one-shot assault weapon. You cannot use it at max range and expect single, regular infantry squads to be effective. It is best used with reliance on its maneuverability and fast fire speed to move into mid-range, pop a barrage, and pop back.

3. The sturmtiger absolutely can shoot from the fog of war, you just have to be smart with it. firing from behind a building means the enemy will have no sight and will not have any chance to react to the rocket. It can also hit vehicles fairly reliably with a little micro involved.

I am once again, not making a statement on the fact that the ISU was balanced before, I am quite happy with the changes it has recieved. I am merely pointing out that all factions have different units that allow them to get similar results.

All of these above observations were made through playing as the factions in question, and I would prefer if we did not resort to L2P and other pesonal attacks against my character while having this straightforward discussion. I am not attacking you, and I would prefer if you did not attack me.

1. The Brummbar has 6 AOE, as does the ISU, this can be found on the changelog: specifically pages 1 and 4. The difference in scatter and anti-vehicle value is explained by the fact that it is a much cheeper vehicle, a little under 50% cheaper in terms of fuel cost, and it it much more mobile. I usually build 1 brummbar when I play wehr because I prefer teching straight to T4 over using tigers.

2. The panzerwerfer is not an area denial weapon like the katy, it is a one-shot assault weapon. You cannot use it at max range and expect single, regular infantry squads to be effective. It is best used with reliance on its maneuverability and fast fire speed to move into mid-range, pop a barrage, and pop back.

3. The sturmtiger absolutely can shoot from the fog of war, you just have to be smart with it. firing from behind a building means the enemy will have no sight and will not have any chance to react to the rocket. It can also hit vehicles fairly reliably with a little micro involved.

I am once again, not making a statement on the fact that the ISU was balanced before, I am quite happy with the changes it has recieved. I am merely pointing out that all factions have different units that allow them to get similar results.

All of these above observations were made through playing as the factions in question, and I would prefer if we did not resort to L2P and other pesonal attacks against my character while having this straightforward discussion. I am not attacking you, and I would prefer if you did not attack me.

Wow these arguments got heated quickly for a unit I thought we all agreed was OP.

To the above:
Brumbar is extremely rare and lack luster. It is also shooting at larger squads so large AOE means less. As has been said numerous times you see it before it shoots so the player can make a decision whether to engage it or not. I also don't understand how a Tiger is not more attractive. Bigger health pool, better scaling, less tech cost, arrives at the same time, more versatile, better vet ability, and very high ability to wipe squads in two (sometimes one) shot.

Panzerwerfer is outright useless right now. If by area denial you mean a short relatively harmless rocket barrage every minute and a half is area denial, then sure. Even in team games this unit is rare.

Sturmtiger while powerful is again short ranged, cannot engage tanks against a good player, and must be seen to be used. Also long reloads!

Saw a comment about smoke to prevent LOS on ISU152. While technically true, in practice never. You need to get the mortar close to the front, saturate the approach (giving away your attack), and as soon as one of your units opens fire it becomes the target of every unit within range because of the way true sight works. If smoked worked every time a blizzard approached all the ISU's would die.

ISU 152 was stupid. It negated German infantry. That is not to say Elephant or Jagd did not negate Allied armor, just that playing a game where all medium armor and infantry had to cower behind cover because a player a-moved was stupid (and if you didn't have jagd or an elephant good luck against a commentate player). Combined with mark target and before that mind control guards with button, this unit was disgusting.

Technically the ISU 152 is still capable of hitting moving targets, you just have to anticipate their movement now.

Please stop using the Jagd is still broken so ISU 152 should be too. If the Jagd is still broken (and it may be) let's talk about how to fix that unit in another thread.

Finally, I understand that Germans have a better win percentage in team games. This has a lot to do with the way units scale into the late game, and the late game options. Just because a faction is better does not give us the license to make an OP unit that forces a limited doctrine choice so that we can stay in the game. Let's get the game balanced by balancing the units not by saying his stick is too big so I get this big one over here until he puts that one down.

1. The Brummbaer has a smaller aoe value than the isu and it's far more inaccurate, and at least you are able to retreat from this thing instead of getting oneshotted on retreat.

2.The Panzerwerfer is a bad joke if you compare it to the katy, on max range it's just bad and can't hit anything, the ae of it's rockets is very bad too. Gets better on closer ranges though.

3. The Sturmtiger can wipe infantry true, but normally you are able to retreat your squads from it. And it doesn't shoot out of the fog of war and it's hard to hit vehicles with it, it seems you haven't played for a few patches to me.

And the most stuff you are calling here "oneshot" machines are easy avoidable so it's more a ltp issue.

Now, back to the isu, it's not overnerfed, it's very strong vs infantry, even though i would have liked a button for HE and AP more than this micro intensive unit. Against any fast moving target it's rather bad.

The StuPa has the same AoE as the ISU. The difference is that StuPa has 160 damage per shell while ISU has 240 damage per shell. This means that the StuPa reaches the 80 damage mark faster than the ISU from damage drop off.

At 1.975m the damage is 81.12 (StuPa)
At 2.925m the damage is 80.40 (ISU)
Every man is like 2 meters tall

See the effective killing AoE?
So the killing AoE is as tall as a man in CoH2 for the StuPa while the killing AoE for ISU is one and a half man.



Btw, I actually prefer using the new ISU. At least it doesn't waste its shells randomly because there's no hold-fire.

Also, this might not be the final change. They might just give the ISU tracking for the shell like the old Sturmtiger.

A quick response to the Axis fan club :

The Soviet faction is not the dominant faction in any modes of play. I defend the ISU 152 because it's the best weapon the allies have against axis total domination.... Without it, the 3vs3 and 4vs4 game mode would be a lot more empty. So if they just nerf the ISU without doing anything to improve allies gameplay in 3vs3 or 4vs4 then it GG COH2.

Do i'm enough clear now. Me comprenez-vous ?

La prochaine patch est cruciale pour l'avenir de COH2. (Use google to translate)

Merci !

I do feel this is the wrong way to nerf the ISU. I mean it still can one-shot squads, but it is just harder. Are people going to still complain about it? I think they will. Obviously all units need micro and attention to work, but i am not sure the ISU is worth its price with these changes. It seems more of a liability now if you can't micro it well. Now this may lead to players choosing different doctrines, which is good, but we must remember most SOviet doctrines suck ass

ISU has significantly better AoE falloff as well.

even at the time were the isu one shots onlöy inf it was op. it kills inf faster then you can reinforce with pios squads!

troll post.

in a real close game, no oponent would get a kt jt or isu°°°°

The frustration about the ISU nerf is understandable.
I don't think that the soviets actually have reliable ways of dealing with vet 5 squads besides the ISU, on the other hand the wehrmacht suffer way more than they should because of this. But this is a bad design flaw.

ISU overnerfed? good riddance! I wonder why they just didn't make the isu have a hard time hitting infantry? I mean it's gun was hardly accurate i imagine and yet it snipes infantry a screenlenght away pretty consistent. Why does brummbär miss even at close range but isu keep sniping away? Makes no sense.

Whoever thinks ISU and Jagd are overnerfed was greatly taking advantage of these abuse machines before. L2 micro.

Jadg can still shoot through everything so if you just spot tank behind something, this tank will probably stand still - no threat, right? Just click and hit. ISU is different, harder. You can't just hit stationary behind something. What's more, if you see infantry and try to attack, in fact you dont know when ISU will shoot due to range - you dont know how long it will rotate because you dont see ISU, and it leaves soviets only with IS2 as valuable heavy vehicle.

I heard that in the next beta ISU has a reloading mini-game, also you cannot abuse right-click to auto target units, must aim with arrow keys instead.

A quick response to the Axis fan club :

The Soviet faction is not the dominant faction in any modes of play. I defend the ISU 152 because it's the best weapon the allies have against axis total domination.... Without it, the 3vs3 and 4vs4 game mode would be a lot more empty. So if they just nerf the ISU without doing anything to improve allies gameplay in 3vs3 or 4vs4 then it GG COH2.

Do i'm enough clear now. Me comprenez-vous ?

La prochaine patch est cruciale pour l'avenir de COH2. (Use google to translate)

Merci !

Your comment was already addressed in my comment above yours. Before you call out "axis fan clubs" you should read everyone's comments. Dismissing all counter arguments as axis favored is foolish. Clearly the unit was broken, may still be, but we are trying to find a solution to it short of removing it from the game.

The long term health of COH2 demands all players seek to make the game balanced not give one uber unit to a side until the other side is weaker.

Whoever thinks ISU and Jagd are overnerfed was greatly taking advantage of these abuse machines before. L2 micro.

That a great comment...

Your comment was already addressed in my comment above yours. Before you call out "axis fan clubs" you should read everyone's comments. Dismissing all counter arguments as axis favored is foolish. Clearly the unit was broken, may still be, but we are trying to find a solution to it short of removing it from the game.

The long term health of COH2 demands all players seek to make the game balanced not give one uber unit to a side until the other side is weaker.

If the hat fit you...