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ISU-152 Overnerfed

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voltardark
25 Oct 2014, 00:26 AM
#1
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Posts: 976

After watching many beta matches 1vs1 and 2vs2,i can say that the ISU 152 is now border useless for its cost.

It was the best weapon soviet faction had... They are now a bear without is best teeth.
Sure there are others options, but now the cmrds with ISU-152 are gimped.
The ISU 152 was already easy to kill with 2 tanks flanking it, now it's a joke.

That was a nice idea, but it's just too much and not fun.

The ISU-152 kill infantry the same way the elephant kill tanks. (from afar, fast and is rather easy to kill if you can flank/reach it.) both are balanced unit that do their job for their cost.

I would revert the Jagdtiger too, but i would make its shooting through wall a munition ability, and make it 10% slower. The Jagdtiger is in it's own class. (tough to kill and powerful)

Thanks.
VoltarDark

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Mr. Someguy
25 Oct 2014, 00:42 AM
#2
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I won't comment on the ISU as of now, but the ISU before the nerf was absolutely not balanced. Also you can compare ISU squad-wipes to the Elefant, when the Elefant starts one-shotting full health tanks.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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Aerohank
25 Oct 2014, 00:54 AM
#3
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 00:42 AMMr. Someguy
Also you can compare ISU squad-wipes to the Elefant, when the Elefant starts one-shotting full health tanks.


You mean like how it 1-shots the T70, su76, M8? All of which are a lot more expensive than the average infantry squad.
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Mr. Someguy
25 Oct 2014, 01:06 AM
#4
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 00:54 AMAerohank
You mean like how it 1-shots the T70, su76, M8? All of which are a lot more expensive than the average infantry squad.


Light tanks and Armoured Cars vs Elefant Tank Destroyer? Not really any basis for an argument. I know you're just going to comeback and say "ISU vs Infantry", you can apply that argument when they build me an Infantry squad that can take at least 2 direct ISU hits before dying.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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Low0dds
25 Oct 2014, 01:07 AM
#5
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 00:54 AMAerohank


You mean like how it 1-shots the T70, su76, M8? All of which are a lot more expensive than the average infantry squad.


All of which have very little armor. :bananadance:
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broodwarjc
25 Oct 2014, 01:11 AM
#6
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ISU pre-beta patch was NOT okay, it needed some kinda tone down and at least Relic also gimped the Jagdtiger. Lord knows the uproar if they had added the manual target function to only the ISU...
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ThoseDeafMutes
25 Oct 2014, 01:12 AM
#7
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The ISU, JT, Elefant should actually have never been included in the game to begin with, so a drastic overnerf to the point of uselessness is the next best thing IMO

^_^
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voltardark
25 Oct 2014, 01:14 AM
#8
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 00:42 AMMr. Someguy
I won't comment on the ISU as of now, but the ISU before the nerf was absolutely not balanced. Also you can compare ISU squad-wipes to the Elefant, when the Elefant starts one-shotting full health tanks.


It's rather normal for such heavy assault gun to kill static infantry grade units easily. Moving squads are already less prone to be one-shotted. As with the elephant, the ISU-152 need a spotter to do its job properly. Scouting and counter scouting are the key here.


If i may add, i would limit the maximum number of heavy unit on the field to (1) one per player.
The heavy units, i would limit are : the ISU-152, the-IS2, the Elephant, the Jagdtiger, the King Tiger and the Tiger.

Such change should incite players to diversify their units.

Thanks
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Mr. Someguy
25 Oct 2014, 01:20 AM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 01:14 AMvoltardark
It's rather normal for such heavy assault gun to kill static infantry grade units easily. Moving squads are already less prone to be one-shotted. As with the elephant, the ISU-152 need a spotter to do its job properly. Scouting and counter scouting are the key here.


3 things wrong here.

1. "It's rather normal for such heavy tank destroyers to kill static armoured units easily."

2. Squad doesn't need to be still to get one-shot, in fact most of the time they're moving when they suddenly explode into bits.

2. You do realise ISU can spot for itself just like the SU-85 and Elefant?
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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Tobis
25 Oct 2014, 01:22 AM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 00:54 AMAerohank


You mean like how it 1-shots the T70, su76, M8? All of which are a lot more expensive than the average infantry squad.


At the end game I would much rather keep my vetted infantry around than a T70, su76, or M8. The veterancy (which most infantry will have by that point) makes them far more valuable.
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NinjaWJ
25 Oct 2014, 01:31 AM
#11
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Yeah i dont like t now. Feels clunky
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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wongtp
25 Oct 2014, 01:46 AM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 01:12 AMThoseDeafMutes
The ISU, JT, Elefant should actually have never been included in the game to begin with, so a drastic overnerf to the point of uselessness is the next best thing IMO

^_^


this, give me heavy tank slugfest, rather than long range sniping nonsense. leave sniping tanks to pak 43s.
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voltardark
25 Oct 2014, 02:03 AM
#13
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 01:20 AMMr. Someguy


3 things wrong here.

1. It's rather normal for such heavy tank destroyers to kill static armoured units easily.

2. Squad doesn't need to be still to get one-shot, in fact most of the time they're moving when they suddenly explode into bits.

2. You do realise ISU can spot for itself just like the SU-85 and Elefant?


3 things true here.

1. It's rather normal for such heavy assault gun to kill static infantry units easily.
ISU-152 primary role is assault gun and not tank destroyer.

2 A moving squad is harder to kill with an ISU-152, it prefer static unit.

3 The ISU-152 like the elephant and any other unit can spot for themselves, but is not optimal as they can fire farther they can see. Ref: http://www.coh2.org/topic/3018/truesight see the post with the picture from AmiPolizeiFunk.

Sorry to have contradict you.
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Tobis
25 Oct 2014, 02:07 AM
#14
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 02:03 AMvoltardark

The ISU-152 like the elephant and any other unit can spot for themselves, but is not optimal as they can fire farther they can see.


I don't think you know which ability he is talking about....
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Crysack
25 Oct 2014, 02:08 AM
#15
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Posts: 70

As I posted in the other thread, having actually played around with it, I could not disagree more. Knowing exactly when the ISU is ready to fire and being able to precisely aim shots offers a significant increase to the unit's efficiency. That being said, I abuse fire-at-ground a lot in regular play so maybe the new ability just suits my playstyle.
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voltardark
25 Oct 2014, 02:11 AM
#16
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Posts: 976

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 02:07 AMTobis

I don't think you know which ability he is talking about....


Well please tell me then. if i can learn more i'll be happy.
VoltarDark

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Vaz
25 Oct 2014, 02:26 AM
#17
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Posts: 1158

I really don't get the ISU mentality of players. I have fought them and used them. Why is the basis of these arguments revolving around something to the effect of "I can't use panzershrek squads to destroy it head on"? You can't use gaurds to drop tigers. You can't use bazooka riflemen to drop tigers. The same shit happens when allied infantry armed with whatever get in front of tiger tank. Splat and no damage done. If anything is OP about the ISU it's the giant sight range range ability, without that it wouldn't be 1 shoting squads normally in the fog.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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dreamerdude
25 Oct 2014, 02:55 AM
#18
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All I had got out of this post is why is the game not easy enough were I can win... sorry
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MarcoRossolini
25 Oct 2014, 03:06 AM
#19
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I'm inclined to disagree that the ISU should have been left alone, but on the other hand, it appears another of the tiny amount of units the Soviets had available to counter heavy German armour has now disappeared...
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NinjaWJ
25 Oct 2014, 04:08 AM
#20
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Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 03:06 AMMarcoRossolini
I'm inclined to disagree that the ISU should have been left alone, but on the other hand, it appears another of the tiny amount of units the Soviets had available to counter heavy German armour has now disappeared...



I agree Marco. It is the only real counter to heavy armor the USSR have. It was squad wiping a lot so i did agree that it needed ot be changed. However, i feel that this beta change is a lazy way to add "micro" to a unit
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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