Let's talk about the P-47 anti-tank Rocket Strike

I agree with both obvious sides of the debate. It can really wreck shop and once it gets its site on armor with the first pass when it comes in to attack it will chase the damn tank to the gates of hell.

However the USF has no Heavy Tank counter at all besides the P47 and just plain suck as AT similar to the early Soviets before the rebalance. So its pretty much needed.

I think if they make it so Jacksons can counter heavy tanks effectively they should reduce its area of operations a bit. It is a really really large radius. But it can be countered so it should remain as strong damage wise.

That's why all these ostheer air raids capabilities against USF are rather unrealistic. But then, let's not forget about Mescherscmidt 262 the best fighter plane in the war. Anybody wants to deny that?

Photo here

The M262 came late because there were lots of problems with the engine design and with it's reliability once in production. It had superb speed that stunned the Allied pilots when they came up against it, but it had one very major weakness.... It was slow on take off and landing, and by the time it was operational the allied fighter aircraft were able to loiter over German airfields relatively unopposed and took out many Me262s on landing and takeoff.

Like with the super tanks, having a bit of superb tech is not sufficient to win a war.

So many are jazzed by the flashy German tech that they miss the Allied tech that were real game changers. As an example the US artillery doctrine was very advanced for its time, and since it could be applied to any tube, and the US had lots of tubes and lots of good ammunition (a lot of German ammo was of low grade and often faulty), it made seemingly low tech tubes very devastating. As a method of organizing a weapons system is was much less flashy but much more effective than all the KT's put together.

That's why all these ostheer air raids capabilities against USF are rather unrealistic. But then, let's not forget about Mescherscmidt 262 the best fighter plane in the war. Anybody wants to deny that?

Photo here

not the best fighter plane in ww2

not the best fighter plane in ww2

Best interceptor. Fighter plane isn´t fighter plane.

Best escort would be Mustang, best dog fighter the Spitfire. Best low altitude plane would be FW-190.

On topic: The rocket strike can be avoided but it´s as annoying as blizzards. If you can avoid it, it pauses any tank movement for the next 2 mins. And that´s boring.

That's why all these ostheer air raids capabilities against USF are rather unrealistic. But then, let's not forget about Mescherscmidt 262 the best fighter plane in the war. Anybody wants to deny that?

Bleeding edge technology with an engine life of 25 hours and which will flameout unless you treat it just right?


You don't base an air-force on that


If I had to pick best fighter I would say P-47, possibly P-51 or Corsair

It just needs the AOE nerfed so it can't wreck units all over the map.

i dont want to derail but, the best fighter aircraft in ww2 was the fw-190 series. they had the most success

i dont want to derail but, the best fighter aircraft in ww2 was the fw-190 series. they had the most success

Actually some of the top aces of WWII that were on the Luftwaffe also used the Messerschmitt Bf 109 so we can't forget that one too.

Actually some of the top aces of WWII that were on the Luftwaffe also used the Messerschmitt Bf 109 so we can't forget that one too.

We also can't forget that few survived missions and 2 kills on a single one and in some cases, just survival would earn you an "ace" status.

WW2 pilot aces are not even close to say, red baron WW1 ace.

Pretty much the same goes for tank aces, where surviving long enough(personal survival, not tanks thou) would earn you ace status as well.

i dont want to derail but, the best fighter aircraft in ww2 was the fw-190 series. they had the most success

Can't gauge it that way since we are talking about different factions with assymetric balance.

The FW190 operated in a much more target rich environment. While Allied fighters later in the war seldom had targets other than other fighter to shoot down, the German fighters had a sky full of large and medium bombers, recon planes, possibly even transports doing airdrops, slower (and distracted?) Soviet ground attack planes.

German Aces also benefited from the German Ace syndrome were a "star" pilot was going to get the benefits of the doubt in the case of kills as well as when it is being determined if they made the kill or someone less famous.

Airplanes are not machines, they are "weapons systems". The FW190-A was an inferior plane to the P-51 in all but low altitude combat (which rarely happened with a P-51. The Dora-9 variant came in the fall of '44 (so it is a year or more newer than the P-51D) but at best only edged out the P-51 in high altitude performance by a bit. But the German pilots at this time were of much poorer quality. And even had they been the equal of the allied pilots, they were by then almost always vastly outnumbered.

We also can't forget that few survived missions and 2 kills on a single one and in some cases, just survival would earn you an "ace" status.

WW2 pilot aces are not even close to say, red baron WW1 ace.

Pretty much the same goes for tank aces, where surviving long enough(personal survival, not tanks thou) would earn you ace status as well.

The red baron got 80 kills.

The great Luftwaffe experten are into 3 figures and there are several with 300+


The Red Air Force was just that bad and the Luftwaffe spread that thin.

I like it as it's powerful, but I've always found it risky to use since it's aoe is very wide, stand too close to the enemy (and by that I mean yards, not feet), and you're bound to get shot by the rockets as much as the enemy. Hardly "close" air support, IMO.

We also can't forget that few survived missions and 2 kills on a single one and in some cases, just survival would earn you an "ace" status.

WW2 pilot aces are not even close to say, red baron WW1 ace.

Pretty much the same goes for tank aces, where surviving long enough(personal survival, not tanks thou) would earn you ace status as well.

Eric Hartmann had 352 credited kills and he is the best ace of all time followed by a large list of members from the Luftwaffe who scored over 100 and 200 kills in WW2. The top allies ace scored 62 kills and was a soviet pilot.

Would be great to debate this kind of things in another thread but WW2 and WW1 sky war can't actually be compared in terms of numbers. We al know that the Red Baron was the best pilot from WW1 but the best aces of WW2 were no noobs at all.

P-47 is fine. I've been on both ends of the ability, it's very avoidable, with the exception of a few, difficult maps (Shtalingrad, I have my eyes on ya).

I think the P-47 anti-tank Rocket Stike is too OP now. More and more US players start to use the Airborne company commander because of this ability. WOW it can do a lot of heavy damage to german heavy tanks ,even the JT and KT. If you don't get your tanks out of the area which is so large timely, the P-47 planes can destroy all of your heavy tanks including panthers, tigers, KT, JT and elephants. I think it is too OP for just 240 munitions, compared to usless OKW artillery strikes which costs more munitions but does little damage.

BTW,OST Fragmentation Bomb costing 180 munitions, is the most usless OST aircraft ability. It can be very unaccurate, since the ability acting area is too narrow.

And, The Soviet IL-2 strikes (cost 180 munitions) and OST stuka close air support (cost 200 munitions) have been usless for a long time because of nerfs.

Test the P-47 and you will find it is the strongest airsupport ability now!

I have some feedback in regards to you said in this post:

1. Honestly, when it comes down to it, the P-47 call-in is really not that overpowered. For its resource-heavy price (currently at 240 munitions) it is on par with its Oberkommando West equivalent (Luftwaffe Ground Forces). Think about it like this: it is usually pretty evident by this time in the game that the person(s) you're playing against is using Airborne Company, and that means you should be ready to maneuver your vehicles in a fashion that would cause the call-in to be null and voided. It only has a certain radius, and knowing that, if you consistently move your armor to different locations (yes, this requires a decent amount of micro, but what doesn't in COH2?), also these planes are INCREDIBLY susceptible to AA fire (I've seen them get knocked right out of the sky before they even fired a single rocket, before). In contrast, Luftwaffe Ground Forces for the OKW is ten more munitions, has a decent impact duration, AND drops a squad of Fallschirmjägers onto the point. We can argue the usefulness of both commanders, but any experienced player would agree that both perks are completely amazing given the situation.

2. Again, I really cannot agree with you; fragmentation bombs for the Wehrmacht are absolutely amazing, provided it is utilized in the proper situation. I've wiped a whole blob of 6+ squads of US Forces infantry, just with the fragmentation bomb. Also, it obliterates light armor, gives decent damage to medium, and shocks the crew of heavy armor (those few seconds of inactivity can make a HUGE difference).

3. In terms of the Soviet IL-2 Sturmovik strafing run and the Close Air Support Doctrine, again, they are ALL fantastic and game-changing, provided you can strategically call them in at the right time. There's a reason why Relic balances these things constantly. Perhaps, yes, the P-47 could use a little work, but I'm sure if it is that big of an issue, it'll get modified and improved soon enough. Also, there are other call-ins such as the IL-2 Bombing Run (12 CP), that are far more "all-purpose" (in lack of a better term), against various enemy units, then the P-47.

Please let me know what you think!

I have some feedback in regards to you said in this post:

1. Honestly, when it comes down to it, the P-47 call-in is really not that overpowered. For its resource-heavy price (currently at 240 munitions) it is on par with its Oberkommando West equivalent (Luftwaffe Ground Forces). Think about it like this: it is usually pretty evident by this time in the game that the person(s) you're playing against is using Airborne Company, and that means you should be ready to maneuver your vehicles in a fashion that would cause the call-in to be null and voided. It only has a certain radius, and knowing that, if you consistently move your armor to different locations (yes, this requires a decent amount of micro, but what doesn't in COH2?), also these planes are INCREDIBLY susceptible to AA fire (I've seen them get knocked right out of the sky before they even fired a single rocket, before). In contrast, Luftwaffe Ground Forces for the OKW is ten more munitions, has a decent impact duration, AND drops a squad of Fallschirmjägers onto the point. We can argue the usefulness of both commanders, but any experienced player would agree that both perks are completely amazing given the situation.

2. Again, I really cannot agree with you; fragmentation bombs for the Wehrmacht are absolutely amazing, provided it is utilized in the proper situation. I've wiped a whole blob of 6+ squads of US Forces infantry, just with the fragmentation bomb. Also, it obliterates light armor, gives decent damage to medium, and shocks the crew of heavy armor (those few seconds of inactivity can make a HUGE difference).

3. In terms of the Soviet IL-2 Sturmovik strafing run and the Close Air Support Doctrine, again, they are ALL fantastic and game-changing, provided you can strategically call them in at the right time. There's a reason why Relic balances these things constantly. Perhaps, yes, the P-47 could use a little work, but I'm sure if it is that big of an issue, it'll get modified and improved soon enough. Also, there are other call-ins such as the IL-2 Bombing Run (12 CP), that are far more "all-purpose" (in lack of a better term), against various enemy units, then the P-47.

Please let me know what you think!

Wow great post! I definitely agree with the fragmentation bomb thing. That ability is great! It activates very fast which can obliterate tons of enemy units.

I agree with both obvious sides of the debate. It can really wreck shop and once it gets its site on armor with the first pass when it comes in to attack it will chase the damn tank to the gates of hell.

However the USF has no Heavy Tank counter at all besides the P47 and just plain suck as AT similar to the early Soviets before the rebalance. So its pretty much needed.

I think if they make it so Jacksons can counter heavy tanks effectively they should reduce its area of operations a bit. It is a really really large radius. But it can be countered so it should remain as strong damage wise.

I actually overlooked that factor. With the fact that the US Forces have an absolutely horrid late-game (zero non-doctrinal heavy armor), this only further reinforces that the Relic balance developers, aren't as naive as you would think. Both of the current Axis (German) factions have a wide-array of late-game options, and with the exception of call-ins (Easy Eights) the US Forces are seriously lacking as of this moment in time. Of course, you could always argue that there are Jacksons and Wolverines, HOWEVER, they're both medium tanks that are incredibly fragile and couldn't last a straight thirty seconds in a one-on-one brawl with any variant of the Tiger. Long story short, there is ALWAYS room for improvement and that's what patches are for.

Wow great post! I definitely agree with the fragmentation bomb thing. That ability is great! It activates very fast which can obliterate tons of enemy units.

Thanks! A lot of people tend to forget that these call-ins aren't supposed to be the game winning perks (needless to say, they're implemented into the game mechanic to provide assistance in winning the game). If people honestly looked at the game for what it is, and where it was when it first came out in July of 2013, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) most people would agree that Company of Heroes 2 has definitely come a long way (and whether it still has a long ways to go, is a topic for another thread).

If you love parentheses so much why don't you marry them

The performance difference to other stuff like Anti-tank strafe run on Ostheer is obvious, however I think this doesn't really say much as in my opinion the strafe run is underpowered. Haven't seen how the ability is now with that beta patch, I cannot try the Beta out at the moment.

There is some kind of asymmetric balance and I actually have sympathy for those saying that it may be fine because the Americans kind of have to rely on it for late game. Maybe it is not the best game design, but it is a legitimate argument. I would just wish this ability would also be actually acknowledged when USA players talk again about their apparently weak late game.

Only time it seems to get a bit out of hand is when combined with Mark Vehicle in team games. Personally I found Mark Vehicle was always too powerful and impactful and I would like to see that ability reduced in power or even completely gone. The same goes obviously to Panther Command tank ability even if it is less prevalent and cannot simply clicked around anywhere on the map on will but only in the near of it, but if the ability is completely gone it would need a new ability or a cost reducement as compensation.