Rear Echelons

In order to make them worth it they must be a sizeable upgrade for rifles. And when they are that means that RET with these upgrades will be able to out DPS and win for cost against squads they shouldn't be beating.

The DPS for picked-up weapons varies with the amount of Manpower the unit that picks it up. For example, Riflemen that cost 280 PM with BARs will do MUCH more damage than Rear Echelons with a BAR - REs cost 140, just half that, and thus will do less damage. Withs BARs in the poor state that they're in at this moment, the "upgrade" will be nothing more than 60 or 120 wasted munitions.
(which, by the way, is why Bazookas on REs are somewhat effective - they don't lose damage per shot)

And, by the way, don't expect the Rear Echelons with M2 Carbines to become absolute murders on the battlefield - they're still only engineers, and with the M2s, are comparable to Pioneers. Slightly less DPS per models, but has less DPS drop-off at range (pretty much uses the Assault Rifle weapon model). Nothing too OP, it just allows they to become effective at something.

@DakkaIsMagic
Really? The REs for me drop like flies when they try to advance on the enemy. And when they stay put, they just get out-DPS'ed by everything else on the battlefield. And Fighing Position, as stated before, are built like a house of straw and, unless the RE is Vet 2 with 5 men, will get 1-shotted by ANY explosive if it lands inside of the position.

This comment shows ur complete ignorance towards this game

At my current level of play there is no room for ignorance.

@ Queen Ratchet123: this is not an epeen forum. Please post with respect

I don't have a problem with RE. They aren't supposed to be effective combat troops. As Herr Schlake said, the likelihood of BARs being improved at some point + direct combat improvements to RE would create an imbalanced unit.

Besides, there are plenty of other more pressing matters that should be dealt with in regards to USF balance rather than unnecessarily buffing what is meant to be a poor frontline squad.

Personally I feel that rear echelon troops are fine the way they are. They are inexpensive and all three levels of vet are useful. What Americans really need is cheaper access to Bazookas and Bars (say 40 ammo each) which would also help rear echelons as you could afford to upgrade them.

If a change were made to rear echelon troops what I would like to see is the ammo cost on volley fire removed. Americans are already ammo starved as it is. Back when Volley Fire was OP the cost was justified but being as how crappy it is now they should remove the cost.

At my current level of play there is no room for ignorance.

At my current education level. I have zero time dealing with intentional ignorance, such as yourself.

The DPS for picked-up weapons varies with the amount of Manpower the unit that picks it up. For example, Riflemen that cost 280 PM with BARs will do MUCH more damage than Rear Echelons with a BAR - REs cost 140, just half that, and thus will do less damage. Withs BARs in the poor state that they're in at this moment, the "upgrade" will be nothing more than 60 or 120 wasted munitions.
(which, by the way, is why Bazookas on REs are somewhat effective - they don't lose damage per shot)

And, by the way, don't expect the Rear Echelons with M2 Carbines to become absolute murders on the battlefield - they're still only engineers, and with the M2s, are comparable to Pioneers. Slightly less DPS per models, but has less DPS drop-off at range (pretty much uses the Assault Rifle weapon model). Nothing too OP, it just allows they to become effective at something.

@DakkaIsMagic
Really? The REs for me drop like flies when they try to advance on the enemy. And when they stay put, they just get out-DPS'ed by everything else on the battlefield. And Fighing Position, as stated before, are built like a house of straw and, unless the RE is Vet 2 with 5 men, will get 1-shotted by ANY explosive if it lands inside of the position.

Wait, what exactly do you mean here? The DPS of a bar is the dps of a bar. It doesn't matter which squad you pick it up with. It's a bigger dps increase to put it on an RE than it is a rifle because a garand has higher dps than an m1 carbine so you lose less by replacing the carbine.

Wait, what exactly do you mean here? The DPS of a bar is the dps of a bar. It doesn't matter which squad you pick it up with. It's a bigger dps increase to put it on an RE than it is a rifle because a garand has higher dps than an m1 carbine so you lose less by replacing the carbine.

That was the point I was trying to make. By buffing bars you indirectly make rear echelons better because they can purchase weapon upgrades. I'd like to see them rebuff bars again and see how that shakes things up. Top level players were utilizing rear echelons as replacements for rifles late game because of that.

@DakkaIsMagic
Really? The REs for me drop like flies when they try to advance on the enemy. And when they stay put, they just get out-DPS'ed by everything else on the battlefield. And Fighing Position, as stated before, are built like a house of straw and, unless the RE is Vet 2 with 5 men, will get 1-shotted by ANY explosive if it lands inside of the position.

Ive had them fight in a short range from a ambulance and a fighting hole, I put a squad in the hole with the MG upgrade. My two other squads engage the enemy while my 4th swaps in with hurt squads, Once they reach vet 2 they can hold there own.

Wait, what exactly do you mean here? The DPS of a bar is the dps of a bar. It doesn't matter which squad you pick it up with. It's a bigger dps increase to put it on an RE than it is a rifle because a garand has higher dps than an m1 carbine so you lose less by replacing the carbine.

A percentage increase in DPS doesn't make up for the fact that putting a BAR on Riflemen will get more DPS out of them than putting them on Rear Echelons. They might do more damage percentage-wise, but the DPS they do is effectively...unchanged.

Ive had them fight in a short range from a ambulance and a fighting hole, I put a squad in the hole with the MG upgrade. My two other squads engage the enemy while my 4th swaps in with hurt squads, Once they reach vet 5 they can hold there own.

Erm...an ambulance? And Vet 5? One is plain stupid, the other is just wrong. I have no idea how you manage to get an Ambulance to the front lines, let alone get close to the enemy, without having it blown up. Those things have no armor and 160 health - one AT gun shot or a short burst of fire from pretty much anything will destroy it.

Not trying to be intentionally obtuse or contrary here but I'm still not understanding your logic. If you have two squads, a rifle and an RE and buy two bars, if You put them on the rifle, then you have 3 garands, 2 bars and 4 carbines; if you put the bars on the REs then you have 5 garands, 2 bars and 2 carbines which is more dps. There is no modifier for putting them on REs.

I can understand wanting to put bars onyou rifles first if you don't trust REs as combat troops, but mathmatically speaking, you get more out or putting the bars on REs than you do rifles assuming you keep the REs in combat where you need them.

Erm...an ambulance? And Vet 5? One is plain stupid, the other is just wrong. I have no idea how you manage to get an Ambulance to the front lines, let alone get close to the enemy, without having it blown up. Those things have no armor and 160 health - one AT gun shot or a short burst of fire from pretty much anything will destroy it.

Vet 5? Where did you get Vet five from?


And yes, a Ambulance. Ever think of luring the enemy (seeing how the Axis always to go the cap point first) Into your just captured sector, and having the ambulance around the corner or behind a building? (I get my ambulance to the front lines just fine, I don't know what problem you are having. It seems someone needs to learn positioning) This only really apply at the start of the game, once it turns late I just use the major and I'm having reaction rear echos where I need it. You know, adapt.

Yes it has no armor, its not a problem if you don't put it in front of a AT gun or let them get to it.

Giving them the WW2 US equivalent of assault rifles won't compensate for their lack of explosives or flamethrowers. That, and it directly competes with Riflemen as standard combat infantry.

I say if you want them to have similar combat engineer capabilities, then perhaps the research for grenades should allow them to lay mines or plant bombs. And yet still that doesn't fit the theme of RETs, as RETs in general aren't supposed to be the USF Engineers.

Give them a shotgun upgrade just like Space marine Scouts. seriously, they could have a blast ability for munitions to knock infantry back or suppress them momentarily instead of the god-awful suppressing fire ability.

I mostly use engineer squads to flank the enemy and Rear Echelons are pretty good for me when they use their Volley Fire ability. I can't remember how many times this strategy has forced an otherwise large infantry blob to retreat.