Patch is up, Kubel is slightly nerfed

Wow, you guys complain like shit. I applaud their effort.

Kubel still too powerfull for USF early game. Do we need to wait 2 more weeks to have something barely balance?

I mean I don't need to play 10 games, first OKW players I meet and Kubel push, it took me 10 minutes to kill it, thanks god around rank 500 as USF you still meet noob OKW players that are unable to micro anything that isn't OP like the Kubel.

Come on, this is a joke that patch...

I dunno...it barely suppresses anymore and its damage got reduced by a lot. I think it's fine now.

I had a lot of fun hunting Kubels.
So now there will be less? well, ok.
Still like the patch though.

The history of COH patching since vCOH 1.0 in one picture.

I remember the days I had hope for Relic. Then I just started patching myself. xD


Kubelwagen's power level hasn't changed that much. Even though it got a serious nerf on the move.
It's just more long range efficient and short ranges got nerfed. I guess that promotes charging the Kubel. But how? when it suppresses you.


Here Relic I'll tell you what the problem is for this unit:
- A low cost mobile early game suppression tool can just freeze your opponent against a wall, and it offers very little counterplay:
The unit's design is therefor extremely toxic.

* No early game counter unit/ability
* No fuel cost, but it does allow you to keep Allies of their resources. There is very little potential for opportunity costs to be lost here. => No brainer.
* Mobile: Unlike the static mg (which gets flanked/indirect fired/sniped), you can easily reposition this one both offensively and defensively you can easily outmaneuver your opponent.
* No counterplay, no gameplay, no fun for one side


And I don't even play the game, i'm so smart. I should start asking $$$$ for this.

I love this community... crying for weeks for a Kubel nerf (rightfully) and then complaining when you get one. Seriously, you may believe that this is drop in the ocean and that more changes need to made, but can we at least acknowledge that this is a good thing?

I also don't get the argument that reverting previous changes is somehow 'bad' or 'circular.' If you believe a previous change was a mistake, why wouldn't you want them to fix it? Would you prefer they just persevered with something even when its completely fucked up?

Quite frankly, the issues with the kubel are the same as they had been (still) for ages with maxims:

None of the stationary MGs save the maxim ever hits the field in a manner that can keep time with enemy unit production. By the time the other mgs have hit the field, there are as many or more enemy units to advance and flank it.

Not so with kubels, and not so with maxims. Maxims have been heavily reduced from their former glory, but still, they have always been able to suppress a unit, and rotate to suppress a flanking unit before the first unit has recovered.

This is why maxim spam is so powerful, because the initial maxim can handle its own long enough until the next ones arrive to completely lock down the area.

Kubels were ridiculous in that they could chase units AND suppress them, as well as rotate and reverse to take on any number of advancing threats. Where a maxim (alone) can eventually be overwhelmed, a kubel really never was until a literal hard counter hit (if ever the game lasted so long.) It appears that they still can, but their their ability to suppress on the move is gone which was very much a blatant problem.

Honestly, I feel like the kubel should've has all it's suppression removed and kept it's damage, but that's because I miss jeeps and bikes. Those units and the roles they played are one of the many components and mechanics of the CoH franchise that seem to have been purposefully omitted from CoH2.

Quite frankly, the issues with the kubel are the same as they had been (still) for ages with maxims:

None of the stationary MGs save the maxim ever hits the field in a manner that can keep time with enemy unit production. By the time the other mgs have hit the field, there are as many or more enemy units to advance and flank it.

Not so with kubels, and not so with maxims. Maxims have been heavily reduced from their former glory, but still, they have always been able to suppress a unit, and rotate to suppress a flanking unit before the first unit has recovered.

This is why maxim spam is so powerful, because the initial maxim can handle its own long enough until the next ones arrive to completely lock down the area.

Kubels were ridiculous in that they could chase units AND suppress them, as well as rotate and reverse to take on any number of advancing threats. Where a maxim (alone) can eventually be overwhelmed, a kubel really never was until a literal hard counter hit (if ever the game lasted so long.) It appears that they still can, but their their ability to suppress on the move is gone which was very much a blatant problem.

Honestly, I feel like the kubel should've has all it's suppression removed and kept it's damage, but that's because I miss jeeps and bikes. Those units and the roles they played are one of the many components and mechanics of the CoH franchise that seem to have been purposefully omitted from CoH2.

I would be fine if Kubel lost its suppression and got its moveable damage back. Where it really shined for me was being able to combat M3s and Sniper spam, both of which are a problem for the OKW in the same vein the Kubel spam was for Allies. Maxims still need a suppression nerf though, being able to suppress a squad re-adjust for a flanking squad and suppress it to before the first squad is unsuppressed is bulls***.

Besides. If you want 'quantity of Bias', look no further than you.

...And you.

loudly proclaim your ignorance with statements like 'The Germans has better everything than everyone else all through the war' (Paraphrased, of course).

The quote is wrong, by the way (overall is a little diferent of "all trough the war"). And don't tell me about history and documents. I wonder if you ever read anything else than comics. About Allied roling nazis, of course.

Okay, after playing a lot of post-patch games, the kubel is exactly the same as it was before. Still suppresses on the move with ease, still a horrible nightmare for USF. Whatever they changed did not work.

The munitions decrease has had subtle but noticable effects. I think it was a good change.

I love this community... crying for weeks for a Kubel nerf (rightfully) and then complaining when you get one.

Community is complaining about range and lack of fuel cost, which makes it no brainer spammable IWIN button against USF, because that is what is causing ALL the problems.

Relic nerfs damage on the move and buffs it stationary.

Kubel is most mobile HMG that spots for itself and can't be ambushed thanks to its speed, acceleration and vet1 ability.

And you are wondering why people still have concerns?

Ok, I was hoping that USF will get a life in first 1-4mins but...
It seems Relic does not know what is the problem.
It's not damage, speed etc but suppression power.
Make kubel a unit that hunt not suppress, I mean increase damage on a move but make supprresion same as RE.
Another way is to make Kubel doctrinal in place of HMG, and make HMG T0 non-doctrinal.

5-10 fuel as katitof pointed it out in another thread, is the best solution IMO. Delay for teching etc. Now you can salvage the wrecked kübel and get 5 fuel "for free" back.

its an MG its supposed to suppress your infantry when they walk right in front of it, the whole trick, just like any other MG you have to come to it not from the front. if it was nerfed to the point that you could walk straight at it and kill it before it suppresses your infantry then it would bassically be pointless.

its an MG its supposed to suppress your infantry when they walk right in front of it, the whole trick, just like any other MG you have to come to it not from the front. if it was nerfed to the point that you could walk straight at it and kill it before it suppresses your infantry then it would bassically be pointless.

In return you would receive damage on a move.
M3 also has MG, Jeep the same (does jeep suppress? Idk cause I never used it)
But if it is a mobile suppression platform that cannot be flanked due to speed and acceleration, how you want to deal with it as USF? No AT, no HMGs, just rifles.
And how you would deal with 2 kubels that suppress your units to the ground in just few seconds.
Hide in biulding? Cool, waith for Stormpio to wipe you or volks throw you a grenade.
Choose E8 commander and use AT nades? First You need to get close enough which is impossible vs decent player.

Soviets have Maxim, ZiS and Hooorah which can help to flank it but USF? Nothing. Just make 3-4 rifles squads and pray that Axis player is really, really bad and will not repel this.

I love this community... crying for weeks for a Kubel nerf (rightfully) and then complaining when you get one. Seriously, you may believe that this is drop in the ocean and that more changes need to made, but can we at least acknowledge that this is a good thing?

I also don't get the argument that reverting previous changes is somehow 'bad' or 'circular.' If you believe a previous change was a mistake, why wouldn't you want them to fix it? Would you prefer they just persevered with something even when its completely fucked up?

Community were crying (maybe not as loud as recently but still) for weeks BEFORE kubel was buffed. Now it's same as it was before recent buff so in fact nothing has changed.

Community were crying (maybe not as loud as recently but still) for weeks BEFORE kubel was buffed. Now it's same as it was before recent buff so in fact nothing has changed.

Several people here have complained before the buff that it was in fact needing a buff, mostly due to lack of scaling and fucked up pathing. It was also complained that OKW had no counter for Snipers, and some people suggested to give that ability to Kübelwagen. The buff didn't come out of nowhere.

Okay, after playing a lot of post-patch games, the kubel is exactly the same as it was before. Still suppresses on the move with ease, still a horrible nightmare for USF. Whatever they changed did not work.

Agreed with this. Played a few 2v2's with USF and Kubels still made me almost chuck my laptop out the window.

So did Tiger Ace in a 1v1 but that's a different issue.

* No early game counter unit/ability
* No fuel cost, but it does allow you to keep Allies of their resources. There is very little potential for opportunity costs to be lost here. => No brainer.
* Mobile: Unlike the static mg (which gets flanked/indirect fired/sniped), you can easily reposition this one both offensively and defensively you can easily outmaneuver your opponent.
* No counterplay, no gameplay, no fun for one side

That sounds a lot like playing vs sov sniper strat

Several people here have complained before the buff that it was in fact needing a buff, mostly due to lack of scaling and fucked up pathing. It was also complained that OKW had no counter for Snipers, and some people suggested to give that ability to Kübelwagen. The buff didn't come out of nowhere.

Unit which make dmg when not moving is not a counter against snipers. It should have nice dmg while moving and reduced suppression so it won't suppress in 2 secs.

Unit which make dmg when not moving is not a counter against snipers. It should have nice dmg while moving and reduced suppression so it won't suppress in 2 secs.

Well that is what happened in the buff patch (it actually suppressed slower than before I think, however it could suppress whole blobs which it before couldn't), and people were not happy.

How to fix OKW:

- Give them a MG34/42 team and CoH1 bike
- Remove Kubel

It won't ever happen, but Relic should shallow their pride and apply the ultimate fix.