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Fallschirmjager

17 Sep 2014, 12:27 PM
#41
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

See mg34? expect units spawned from buidlings. It's one damn squad behind your lines and not a whole army and it's not like they can be spammed every 6o seconds.

Falls and JLI can be anticipated and it's always big fun when that squad spawns, exits the building and gets blown up by a demo :p

Seriously they are fine.
17 Sep 2014, 12:34 PM
#42
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

I really don't get it, Fallschirmjäger means Paratroopers but the don't drop like the US Paratroopers. It is just wrong. I think they should drop also with a "Fallschirm" which means "parachute".
17 Sep 2014, 12:37 PM
#43
avatar of Alpharius

Posts: 56

I really don't get it, Fallschirmjäger means Paratroopers but the don't drop like the US Paratroopers. It is just wrong. I think they should drop also with a "Fallschirm" which means "parachute".

These are latewar Fallschirmjäger, where Axis were outnumbered in air, so these mostly arrive on foot and infiltrate.

See mg34? expect units spawned from buidlings. It's one damn squad behind your lines and not a whole army and it's not like they can be spammed every 6o seconds.

Now with Kubels operational we may not see that.
Also it's not uncommon for 2vs2 Ostheer+OKW, for Ostheer to bring MG's.
Last thing - OKW can wait before choosing doctrine.
17 Sep 2014, 12:38 PM
#44
avatar of sabra

Posts: 35

Ok, now we have topic about Falls being OP? And compare them to Shocktroops? Please dont be silly. They were nerfed already some patches ago, and if you attack them even with normal Rifles they lose 1-2 models super fast. The doctrine is terrible, offers almost nothing except Falls and Falls drop for munition dump.

Falls are fine, they serve for they purpouse well (kill arty crew, engies repairing vehicle, scouting....). I dont understand how can anyone even remotely can think this unit is OP. They are also MOST expensive infanty in game...
17 Sep 2014, 12:43 PM
#45
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747


These are latewar Fallschirmjäger, where Axis were outnumbered in air, so these mostly arrive on foot and infiltrate.


Now with Kubels operational we may not see that.
Also it's not uncommon for 2vs2 Ostheer+OKW, for Ostheer to bring MG's.
Last thing - OKW can wait before choosing doctrine.


So what? the first time you'll run into them you'll know they're here.
17 Sep 2014, 12:52 PM
#46
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

See mg34? expect units spawned from buidlings. It's one damn squad behind your lines and not a whole army and it's not like they can be spammed every 6o seconds.

Falls and JLI can be anticipated and it's always big fun when that squad spawns, exits the building and gets blown up by a demo :p

Seriously they are fine.


In 2vs2 with both enemy players spawning shit behind your lines is more an issue.

Infiltration units should be more weak and less combat oriented. With a bunch of useful abilities like grenades to kill support weapons, faster capping of points, demolition charges or AT mines, wire, etc. Units like that would be much more interesting and fun than having elite troops with schrecks spawning at your back.

Infiltration combat-oriented troops should be airborne like paratroopers. I thought that was the concept of fallschimjagers, which oddly enough don't appear from planes.
17 Sep 2014, 13:01 PM
#47
avatar of Alpharius

Posts: 56

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 12:52 PMGreeb

Infiltration units should be more weak and less combat oriented. With a bunch of useful abilities like grenades to kill support weapons, faster capping of points, demolition charges or AT mines, wire, etc. Units like that would be much more interesting and fun than having elite troops with schrecks spawning at your back.

Now we can wait when Axis players will remind us of Partisan squads :D

Though I really wish Partisan squads could set demolition charges.
17 Sep 2014, 13:08 PM
#48
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627


Now we can wait when Axis players will remind us of Partisan squads :D

Though I really wish Partisan squads could set demolition charges.


I wish partisan squads could do anything more serious than chew on their own gun barrels, personally.
17 Sep 2014, 13:09 PM
#49
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 12:52 PMGreeb


In 2vs2 with both enemy players spawning shit behind your lines is more an issue.


I almost exclusively play 2v2s. Usually the first squad that spawns behind our lines manages to do some damage, because sometimes you'll get surprised by it (no mg34s for example). That's when I usually start to wire, mine, demo, burn, occupy (rear echelons can be used for that purpose) the crucial buildings. Yes I know that might not work very well on every map, that's where you need to be a little more cautious with unit placement.


Infiltration units should be more weak and less combat oriented. With a bunch of useful abilities like grenades to kill support weapons, faster capping of points, demolition charges or AT mines, wire, etc. Units like that would be much more interesting and fun than having elite troops with schrecks spawning at your back.

Infiltration combat-oriented troops should be airborne like paratroopers. I thought that was the concept of fallschimjagers, which oddly enough don't appear from planes.


Would certainly be very interesting, but this is rather a design than a balance issue.
17 Sep 2014, 13:23 PM
#50
avatar of Alpharius

Posts: 56


I wish partisan squads could do anything more serious than chew on their own gun barrels, personally.

That's what we should wish for granted and no even mention.
But now, LMG Partisans were so scary, that Obersoldaten were chewing on their own gun barrels and demanded a nerf :)
17 Sep 2014, 13:26 PM
#51
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

another option to consider is give them a cloaking mechanism like Storms in COH1 had. They can infiltrate IF they don't run into wire, mines, get too close to something, avoid scouting units or units on guard, etc.

I know it won't happen because this implies Axis actually having to do some micro... But one can still have dreams Relic will learn to balance.
17 Sep 2014, 13:32 PM
#52
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Seriously lol?

They are the most expensive infantry in the game (440mp) and also cost an eye and an arm to reinforce, also they are very squishy due to 4 man squad.

They only spawn 1 time fron the building, then they are like just regular german infantry.
Also if german dude has more than 3 falls... it will be manpower starved for a long time due to reinforce costs.
17 Sep 2014, 16:37 PM
#53
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 11:28 AMJohnnyB

I was speaking generally, not about you, but about all whiners that since okw appeared they only claimed "this unit op, that unit op" without considering at all at this faction's architecture and why units are the way they are. And the result was far from balancing things. Actualy, okw was more balanced at the begginig as it is now. Well, I'm speaking in the wind,anyway.


It's not like some Axis players consider basically every Soviet has save Penals and Conscripts abuse, right? Bricks, glass houses and all that.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Relic are big boys and you can't blame their balance decisions on forum fanboys.

As for Falls, my only misgiving is that they come with a good weapon right out of the gate. Storms are a better example, they spawn behind lines with Kars, and get their good weapon after an upgrade so they're much less of an alpha strike squad. Falls however can spawn behind an MG or AT gun and decrew it almost instantly.

Still, of all the OKW's bevy of elite infantry, they're probably the least powerful.
17 Sep 2014, 16:44 PM
#54
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Seriously lol?

They are the most expensive infantry in the game (440mp) and also cost an eye and an arm to reinforce, also they are very squishy due to 4 man squad.

They only spawn 1 time fron the building, then they are like just regular german infantry.
Also if german dude has more than 3 falls... it will be manpower starved for a long time due to reinforce costs.



They aren't the most expensive infantry in the game. Their real cost is around ~384mp and their real performance is scaled to that. The extra 56 MP cost is due to their ability to deploy from anywhere.

This is the same for paratroopers, who cost 380 MP to deploy, but their real cost is around ~336 mp.

If they were worth 440 mp, their reinforce cost would be 55.
17 Sep 2014, 17:18 PM
#55
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 05:10 AMKatitof


Damn, I wish soviets had 44-16dps partisans with rec acc modifier increasing their survival.

If you loose unit different then a scout car to partisans you should quit the game forever.


You always say "Assymetrical balance" to people who say they want the same type of unit. So... Assymetrical balance.

You have shocks. Less CP, armoured, more models, cheaper grenade, vet0 smoke, same price. I'll swap Fallschirms for shocks any damn time.


But until then, remember your own words, Katitof - "assymetrical balance".




I rarely get Fallschirms, and only 1 squad a game when I choose Luft. They come out after most other elite infantry and light tech is available. I've not seen them cause several units to retreat like Shocks can.

Are Fallschirms really causing so many problems?
17 Sep 2014, 17:20 PM
#56
avatar of MorgolKing

Posts: 148

This unit is EXTREMELY squishy. I thought this would be a thread calling for a needed buff.
17 Sep 2014, 17:39 PM
#57
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



You always say "Assymetrical balance" to people who say they want the same type of unit. So... Assymetrical balance.

You have shocks. Less CP, armoured, more models, cheaper grenade, vet0 smoke, same price. I'll swap Fallschirms for shocks any damn time.


But until then, remember your own words, Katitof - "assymetrical balance".




I rarely get Fallschirms, and only 1 squad a game when I choose Luft. They come out after most other elite infantry and light tech is available. I've not seen them cause several units to retreat like Shocks can.

Are Fallschirms really causing so many problems?


So you'd take barbarians squad with clubs and give in return effective ambush squad with really great long and short range dps that can spawn out of buildings allowing to actually breaking german infantry maginots line instead of throwing a molo and running home after realising you were issued blanks(partisans)?

Since for soviets it would change a whooping nothing(you'd still face maxims or snipers and conscripts and penals would still be useless), where do I sign up?

I don't believe falls are that much of a problem, your comparison of falls to shocks is beyond retarded, its like comparing a boat to an airplane, but saying they are like partisans also makes any player who have ever used partisans burst with laughter. If fallshirms were ever to be changed in any way, I'd make them much cheaper and put FGs as 50-70 muni upgrade. But I'd much rather give acute munitions to partisans.
17 Sep 2014, 17:50 PM
#58
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 17:39 PMKatitof


So you'd take barbarians squad with clubs and give in return effective ambush squad with really great long and short range dps that can spawn out of buildings allowing to actually breaking german infantry maginots line instead of throwing a molo and running home after realising you were issued blanks(partisans)?

Since for soviets it would change a whooping nothing(you'd still face maxims or snipers and conscripts and penals would still be useless), where do I sign up?

I don't believe falls are that much of a problem, your comparison of falls to shocks is beyond retarded, its like comparing a boat to an airplane, but saying they are like partisans also makes any player who have ever used partisans burst with laughter. If fallshirms were ever to be changed in any way, I'd make them much cheaper and put FGs as 50-70 muni upgrade. But I'd much rather give acute munitions to partisans.


"beyond retarded". You must have attended a good uni to have such good communication skills. So smart, no trolling.


No, I wouldn't take Partisans over FallschirmJs. I never said that. How do you come to these conclusions...? Do you just see my name and start making things up? Reread what I said. 6/10, better luck next time.


And how the hell is comparing 2 doctrinal infantry units at 2CP and 3CP like comparing a boat to an airplane? #gobacktoshool.

17 Sep 2014, 17:52 PM
#59
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I didn't mean you here, I meant sierra. Reading comprehension on the context of the post you quote and previous posts from the discussion it might refer to please. So about that reading more carefully thing...

Also while I fully accept asymethrical balance, what I don't accept(or find it hard to accept) is that most of the better counterparts end up on german side. Why?

Why armies based on battered army groups with armed teenagers and recovered casualties with shortage of supplies almost always end up with much better and stronger stuff while opponents are stuck with early/pre war equipment despite being based on late war armies as well? This is my only beef.
17 Sep 2014, 17:54 PM
#60
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2014, 17:52 PMKatitof
I didn't mean you here, I meant sierra. Reading comprehension on the context of the post you quote and previous posts from the discussion it might refer to please. So about that reading more carefully thing...



Multiquote - it exists to avoid such situations. You started with my quote and didn't mention Sierra.
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