Thoughts on ISU-152

While we're at it, can we take down elephant and jagdtiger armor down so T34 and ZiS-3 can penetrate it most of the time frontally, because I too want to a-move super heavy units frontally with stuff its supposed to counter.

While we're at it, can you provide something useful instead of your endless flamebaiting ? You are always the first to open your stinky mouth when someone says something about some of the flawed units out there (namely, maxims, isu, even if most of the community agrees something needs to be done), and always the last to provide anything that could make the discussion evolve into something non-flame based (ie: reasonable arguments). Here is a question that could make you sound less like a douche if you manage to answer it correctly: you imply that ISU is supposed to counter paks, so what in the world is supposed to counter isu ? And no, the flanking option is not correct, every unit in this game is supposed to be "countered" when flanked by proper caliber weapons.

To mods: you can invis this post if it is too agressive, but you should consider having a fair moderation towards everyone on the board. katitof is maybe never crossing the politeness line, but he is flamebaiting 24/7 and left untouched every goddamn time.

OT: i guess ISU will be changed sooner rather than later (anti everything is not balanced), and hopefully Elefant will be brought on par with other heavies, since it is kind of extinct.

Perfectly balance unit, should be cheaper and stock althou needs some range, armor and penetration buffs, should also come with IR searchlight because it have trouble working as completely independent doomsday machine for armor.

Indeed Kappa

Zis and guards button are a threat to elephent/JT. Plus having infantry your units fighting around those two tanks will result in almost 0 loses from them.

Using Zis offensively is tricky in the best of situations, its slow, dies easily to infantry, and to speak quite frankly they often don't penetrate the front armour of heavy tanks. As for the other point, your right, infantry will not take any losses.

But to be honest comparing an ISU-152 to elephent/JT is probably a bad comparison, its better compared to a Tiger B.

Using Zis offensively is tricky in the best of situations, its slow, dies easily to infantry, and to speak quite frankly they often don't penetrate the front armour of heavy tanks. As for the other point, your right, infantry will not take any losses.

I agree, once I witnessed a ZiS fire 23 shots to an elephant's frontal armor at long range, it took 0 damage.

ZiS can only be used when something is flanking the ele/JT, making them spin and show their rear armor.

The problem with giving the ISU-152 a switch between HE and AP rounds would make no sense.

The HE shell alone was enough to rip turrets off of panthers and tigers. AP for the ISU-152 wasn't widely used.

The problem with giving the ISU-152 a switch between HE and AP rounds would make no sense.

The HE shell alone was enough to rip turrets off of panthers and tigers. AP for the ISU-152 wasn't widely used.

From a realism point of view maybe it doesn't make sense, however; from a game play perspective it makes a great deal of sense. Game play > realism.

-Tanks don't take 5-6 penetrating shots, they take one.
-The ranges on all most armor in the game would be larger than any of the maps.
-All armor would shoot thru "shot blockers".
-Don't get me started on the lethality of small arms and support weapons...

Think about blending the worst parts of the old Elefant, the JT, and the ISU-152. Armor could sit at the back of your base, likely sight for itself, one shot stuff across the map, and you'd have no clue where the shot came from. Sound like fun??

The problem with giving the ISU-152 a switch between HE and AP rounds would make no sense.

The HE shell alone was enough to rip turrets off of panthers and tigers. AP for the ISU-152 wasn't widely used.

Gameplay > reality.

The game is only based on reality. Shall we also have Tigers, Panthers and other heavy armour one-shotting tanks from 10X map distance? MGs that can wipe out a squad in 5 seconds?


The ISU needs to be fixed. The HE/AP idea is one possibility. Discounting it because "but in real life..." is not good.


(PS, I know the ISU-152 was a scary beast. It was nicknamed "PIZDEC VSEMU" which vaguely translates as C*NTFC*KS EVERYTHING. But gameplay Burts, gameplay!)

To mods: you can invis this post if it is too agressive, but you should consider having a fair moderation towards everyone on the board. katitof is maybe never crossing the politeness line, but he is flamebaiting 24/7 and left untouched every goddamn time.

Oh god, +1, Amen. I didn't troll here before I met Katitof :/

Limiting heavy tanks to one per player at any given time would solve so many of these issues, while addressing the current call-in meta as well to some extent.

+1 to Switching ammo types for balance but lets not make it as crippling as the Shermans otherwise it would be a HUGE nerf. Makes the most sense and its already in the game.

For the people claiming ISU-152 have a reliable chance to one shot infantry, please take a look at this replay and count how many "one shots" these two ISU's have managed to pull off.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/24105/one-vp-victory

Play as axis without JT or Ele and they have ISU and its a real struggle especially when there is 2+ ISU.

Play as soviets without ISU and they have JT or Ele and its a real struggle.

Play as soviets/ axis and both teams have JT/Ele/ISU and its not too bad although axis have the edge in the long run.

Play as either faction when neither of these tanks are involved and its much more close cut.

Basically the uber tanks heavily influence balance and it becomes a game of top trumps. Although the game is kind of like is anyway he builds x so i must build y etc.

@ SlaYoU

I am not moderating your post (though I have read it)

The situation is being monitored

Katitof making friends as usual

Please do not stoke the fires

Play as axis without JT or Ele and they have ISU and its a real struggle especially when there is 2+ ISU.

Play as soviets without ISU and they have JT or Ele and its a real struggle.

Play as soviets/ axis and both teams have JT/Ele/ISU and its not too bad although axis have the edge in the long run.

Play as either faction when neither of these tanks are involved and its much more close cut.

Basically the uber tanks heavily influence balance and it becomes a game of top trumps. Although the game is kind of like is anyway he builds x so i must build y etc.

Exactly my thoughts. I'd prefer all these tanks to be removed from the game or all of them having resource penalties like Tiger Ace.

My funniest games have been those where superheavy tanks weren't used.

The problem is not the ISU. The problem is that the German units have only 4 men.
Let me explain.
One shot of the King tiger and the allies lose 4 men from there squads (90% of the shots, if not more). In one game he shot at my cons (6 Man), only 2 survived, then it shot at one of the two ZISs i had, boom 4 men down, then it took out the second ZIS. So basically it two-shots everything.Oh, and if you are unlucky, the machine gun of the KT finishes the rest of the squad of. Normal Tiger is almost that effective as the KT. So, every faction except the US has a brutal Unit. And don't forget, the ISU has no turret and is so slow...

Solution: at least 5 men squads for the axis maybe?

Thats my opinion!

The problem is not the ISU. The problem is that the German units have only 4 men.
Let me explain.
One shot of the King tiger and the allies lose 4 men from there squads (90% of the shots, if not more). In one game he shot at my cons (6 Man), only 2 survived, then it shot at one of the two ZISs i had, boom 4 men down, then it took out the second ZIS. So basically it two-shots everything.Oh, and if you are unlucky, the machine gun of the KT finishes the rest of the squad of. Normal Tiger is almost that effective as the KT. So, every faction except the US has a brutal Unit. And don't forget, the ISU has no turret and is so slow...

Solution: at least 5 men squads for the axis maybe?

Thats my opinion!

Even if that was the issue, it would take forever to implement this change. Relic would have to rebalance the entire game. Having five members would mean the DPS values must be changed, damage profiles, etc.

I dont know but for me it feels like the infantry parthing may be a bit of the problem with it. My squads always seem to clump up tight with nearly no distance between the members, if the ISU hits the squad during this weird behaviour, it will wipe it.

Still the ISU us weird in many aspects, lack of AT capabilities, as it were known to have, but excels at sniping infantry ( tho rng accuracy is sometimes terribad). A 45kg HE Shell should punish lone/blobs of unsupported AT infantry walking headon into one of these, but meh it is hard to decide, this thing is just hard to balance. It should two shot most medium tanks at any ranges, but currently it needs 3-4. It shouldt need to penetrate any armour to deal critical damage, even in an frontal engagement, but this would hurt the gameplay as the german counterparts were just as good to one-shot tanks.

I would rather see a stronker AT ISU, than the current "Jack of all trades" support gun, or just simply remove the thing, and add the Su 100/122 to deal with the heavies.

Even if that was the issue, it would take forever to implement this change. Relic would have to rebalance the entire game. Having five members would mean the DPS values must be changed, damage profiles, etc.

I know, that's why i sad maybe! Beinhard has also a good idea, the men in the squads should not clump u that much!

It feels so frustrating to play against isu. The isu forces the axis player to get a jagdtiger or an elefant every game to be able to deal with it. Thats effective but so lame to play like that every single 2v2. flanking an isu is a wasted effort it is sitting behind a wall of mines. meeting a mine means pretty much you are screwed for you tanks. do not tell me to defuse mines while beeing under isu fire. and do not get me started about mark vehicle on an isu doctrine you can fuck up pretty much every tank with a few shots.