Are kubelwagens OP
15 Sep 2014, 12:58 PM
#181
Posts: 45
Anohter probelm is when USF gets supressed by this shit or a hmg, after you use smoke grenade block their sight, your RM can't get unsuppressed even a pioneer shoot at u. so the only thing you can do it retreat. so wot's the f**king point of using this smoke grenade, this is really annoying.
15 Sep 2014, 13:00 PM
#182
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Can't do much as Merika' vs dbl Kubel until the Lt. comes out at around the 5-6 min mark. Then you can get an MG or Mobile car or AAHT. Comes down to trying to avoid the obvious Kubel positions and either A. camping in buildings, or B. hiding behind them and attempting to flank the Kubels.
15 Sep 2014, 13:05 PM
#183
10 
Posts: 964 | Subs: 11
In general Kubel performance is fine, it's a high risk/high reward unit which OKW need to have a balanced early game against the other factions. Post-patch soviet mg/sniper openings was low risk/high reward but now its more balanced as the risk is higher and less rewarding.
Yes alot of USF players myself included are losing games because USF no longer are OP early game vs good kubel micro.
The problem is US dont have a strong late game so without early game advantage its pretty much gg.
Before Relic start nerfing the Kubel, I think USF should have a few more early game counters such as smoke grenades (cheaper upgrades).
Seperate the "Grenade Package" upgrade into two:
Instead of 25 fuel / 150 manpower:
1. M23 smoke grenades > 10 fuel / 75 manpower
2. MK2 frag grenades > 15 fuel / 75 manpower
Same upgrade cost in total but make smoke accessible early without delaying tech to much.
Yes alot of USF players myself included are losing games because USF no longer are OP early game vs good kubel micro.
The problem is US dont have a strong late game so without early game advantage its pretty much gg.
Before Relic start nerfing the Kubel, I think USF should have a few more early game counters such as smoke grenades (cheaper upgrades).
Seperate the "Grenade Package" upgrade into two:
Instead of 25 fuel / 150 manpower:
1. M23 smoke grenades > 10 fuel / 75 manpower
2. MK2 frag grenades > 15 fuel / 75 manpower
Same upgrade cost in total but make smoke accessible early without delaying tech to much.
15 Sep 2014, 13:10 PM
#184
Posts: 45
In 3v3 or 4v4, it is almost impossible to hide hehind or very hard to flank the kubels when it comes two of them.
15 Sep 2014, 13:13 PM
#185
Posts: 971
I think that Kubel should need a bit of fuel cost, similar to M3 which can't be built as first unit, just to prevent it to be built when your enemy doesn't even have infantry to flank it.
That fuel can be salvaged after, so technically it still will be fuel free or very cheap.
The objective is to have at least two main infantry units by the time the first kubel appear.
That fuel can be salvaged after, so technically it still will be fuel free or very cheap.
The objective is to have at least two main infantry units by the time the first kubel appear.
15 Sep 2014, 13:15 PM
#186
Posts: 45
i don't see any rick of using it specially against usf, it is so cheak and it is not that fragile anymore in this patch, I trid to use two rifle man flank it, still can't manage to kill it.
15 Sep 2014, 13:20 PM
#187
Posts: 896
People, there is no high risk in the kubel anymore. There is only:
high speed
high acceleration
high suppression
high range
high sight
high damage
and of course high reward.
high speed
high acceleration
high suppression
high range
high sight
high damage
and of course high reward.
15 Sep 2014, 13:22 PM
#188
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
I think that Kubel should need a bit of fuel cost, similar to M3 which can't be built as first unit, just to prevent it to be built when your enemy doesn't even have infantry to flank it.
That fuel can be salvaged after, so technically it still will be fuel free or very cheap.
The objective is to have at least two main infantry units by the time the first kubel appear.
OKW starts with 40 fuel, you'd have to move the Kubel to T1 or T2 trucks or remove starting fuel from the faction for a fuel cost to stop you from spamming out several at start. But requiring a truck would already slow building them anyway.
15 Sep 2014, 14:12 PM
#189
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Please no triple nerfs.
Acceleration could be lowered, fuel cost added, reduce damage as well while you're at it, don't need that, I need it to be a mobile supression platform. Which it currently is.
The problem is, early game I can have one mobile supression platform for every US squad on the field. This could be a fundamental problem (which did not come to the foreground before because the Kubel would do cartwheels around every rock and could not have been positioned properly).
Acceleration could be lowered, fuel cost added, reduce damage as well while you're at it, don't need that, I need it to be a mobile supression platform. Which it currently is.
The problem is, early game I can have one mobile supression platform for every US squad on the field. This could be a fundamental problem (which did not come to the foreground before because the Kubel would do cartwheels around every rock and could not have been positioned properly).
15 Sep 2014, 16:04 PM
#190
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Can't do much as Merika' vs dbl Kubel until the Lt. comes out at around the 5-6 min mark. Then you can get an MG or Mobile car or AAHT. Comes down to trying to avoid the obvious Kubel positions and either A. camping in buildings, or B. hiding behind them and attempting to flank the Kubels.
-If there are no buildings > you are doomed
-If opponent uses truck push and makes no mistakes with Kubel >
-You go for LT > he goes for AA HT + Puma
At the moment i don't see how you can come ahead on this engagement:
2Rifles or Rifle+AE
RE
vs
Pushing/Breaking building truck
SP
Volk
Kubel
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
15 Sep 2014, 16:26 PM
#191
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
-If there are no buildings > you are doomed
-If opponent uses truck push and makes no mistakes with Kubel >
-You go for LT > he goes for AA HT + Puma
At the moment i don't see how you can come ahead on this engagement:
2Rifles or Rifle+AE
RE
vs
Pushing/Breaking building truck
SP
Volk
Kubel
That is true, unfortunately.(Will have to pray to the RNG God his Puma micro is awful)
Though having an MG + Lt. out does help I find.
There is one way to counter a single Kubel push though, I've recently discovered. Unfortunately it requires getting a Rare commander(Easy8 doc). Basically you deploy a vetted rifle squad early on, and hope you're able to at nade the kubel by surprise. Then finish it off.
15 Sep 2014, 16:43 PM
#192
Posts: 332 | Subs: 1
Is it me or does the at nade of Soviets fail to penetrate it rather often?
15 Sep 2014, 18:11 PM
#193
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
That is true, unfortunately.(Will have to pray to the RNG God his Puma micro is awful)
Though having an MG + Lt. out does help I find.
There is one way to counter a single Kubel push though, I've recently discovered. Unfortunately it requires getting a Rare commander(Easy8 doc). Basically you deploy a vetted rifle squad early on, and hope you're able to at nade the kubel by surprise. Then finish it off.
Again, we are hoping on mistakes :/
And even if AT naded, you can escape and repair.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
15 Sep 2014, 18:24 PM
#194
Posts: 1637
Relic Logic:
Kubels cost 0 fuel
But THAT OP AMBULANCE! I MEAN JEEZ!!!! NOW THAT NEEDS A FUEL COST! CANT BE SPAMMING THAT THING!!11111
ROFL oh Relix silly silly devs.
Kubels cost 0 fuel
But THAT OP AMBULANCE! I MEAN JEEZ!!!! NOW THAT NEEDS A FUEL COST! CANT BE SPAMMING THAT THING!!11111
ROFL oh Relix silly silly devs.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
15 Sep 2014, 18:54 PM
#195
Posts: 896
Can't do much as Merika' vs dbl Kubel until the Lt. comes out at around the 5-6 min mark. Then you can get an MG or Mobile car or AAHT. Comes down to trying to avoid the obvious Kubel positions and either A. camping in buildings, or B. hiding behind them and attempting to flank the Kubels.
-If there are no buildings > you are doomed
-If opponent uses truck push and makes no mistakes with Kubel >
-You go for LT > he goes for AA HT + Puma
At the moment i don't see how you can come ahead on this engagement:
2Rifles or Rifle+AE
RE
vs
Pushing/Breaking building truck
SP
Volk
Kubel
The problem is that with truck pushing you can actually be more doomed inside the building than without it, because trucks can crush buildings rather quickly. Another problem with buildings is that rifles inside of them only have 35 range, the kubel has 40 range so it can fire at them while they can't fire back.
15 Sep 2014, 19:05 PM
#196
Posts: 971
OKW starts with 40 fuel, you'd have to move the Kubel to T1 or T2 trucks or remove starting fuel from the faction for a fuel cost to stop you from spamming out several at start. But requiring a truck would already slow building them anyway.
I thought the same, there is no way that maths works for that change.
Another change that could be done is leaving Kubel as it is now, but making it unable to reverse, alike to old vCoH german bike.
That would make a bit tricky to avoid good enemy flanks as the Kubel would be obligued to make a dangerous turn to run away.
15 Sep 2014, 19:15 PM
#197
Posts: 896
I thought the same, there is no way that maths works for that change.
Another change that could be done is leaving Kubel as it is now, but making it unable to reverse, alike to old vCoH german bike.
That would make a bit tricky to avoid good enemy flanks as the Kubel would be obligued to make a dangerous turn to run away.
That's a nice idea but, if I am not mistaken it's acceleration and rotation speed will still enable it to move out of trouble very quickly without the need for reversing.
15 Sep 2014, 19:29 PM
#198
Posts: 39
That's a nice idea but, if I am not mistaken it's acceleration and rotation speed will still enable it to move out of trouble very quickly without the need for reversing.
thankfully the pathing is still dimwitted enough that short distance adjustments turn into 16 point turns anyway
15 Sep 2014, 19:31 PM
#199
Posts: 4928
In fact this is the correct way to use it, the Kubel gains more damage from you closing in on it, it will guaranteed win against an M3 that comes in closer than max range, rather than being an RNG fight. Why? Because the Kubel goes from 1.3 to 1.9 penetration, while m3 goes from 1.25 to 1.5, and the kubel also has some minor values like cooldown that are worse at range but better at short than on the m3. TL;DR: never close in with M3 unless kubel is not firing at you.
Actually, the Kubel loses damage from closing in on it, the Kubel fires shorter bursts at close range. At long range the Kubel has the burst advantage, firing longer bursts. At close range the Kubel fires shorter bursts than the M3, and gets wrecked for it. A long range fight is RNG, but a close range fight should go to the M3.
Edit: I just realised how redundant half the words in this post are. That's what happens when you don't pay attention to what you're writing, especially while watching TV.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
15 Sep 2014, 19:33 PM
#200
Posts: 971
That's a nice idea but, if I am not mistaken it's acceleration and rotation speed will still enable it to move out of trouble very quickly without the need for reversing.
I think that with its current acceleration any flank will be much more dangerous for the kubel, making it more micro intensive.
As all early units, kubel balance is too hard to tune. Any small change could be an overnerf or overbuff.
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