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Stormpioneers post patch

10 Sep 2014, 20:59 PM
#61
avatar of MoBo111

Posts: 150

They are still a powerful unit, but now they will lose the fight at long range vs rifles and less often vs conscripts. That's normal since they are armed with smg.


They are not armed with smg they are armed with assault rifles. SMGs are only good no close assault rifles close-mid range. It's a joke that sturmpioneers were nerfed, this will lead to more abusing and cheese and lesser possibilities for okw to defend against it. And nearly every allied core infantry was buffed, and the sturmpioneers were nerfed which is definietly a great idea.... And guys numbers are a fine thing, but thanks to rng they really don't do that much and the term "Midrange" is not really defined.
10 Sep 2014, 21:02 PM
#62
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 20:59 PMMoBo111

And nearly every allied core infantry was buffed.



uh....
10 Sep 2014, 22:18 PM
#63
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

Since this had kind of morphed into a thread about how range is calculated does anyone have visual representation of what 5-30 range actually looks like in game?
10 Sep 2014, 22:22 PM
#64
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 22:18 PMCabreza
Since this had kind of morphed into a thread about how range is calculated does anyone have visual representation of what 5-30 range actually looks like in game?


Build an AT gun. Each dot on its range indicator is 2 range.
10 Sep 2014, 23:47 PM
#65
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 18:08 PMGreeb
+1000
Great post MilkaCow!!!

I encourage you to make similar charts for the rest of core units. They would be REALLY useful to learn optimal distances to fight enemy squads without having to lose plenty of games beforehand.


I've created a tool on my site to compare all squads DPS, in a similar way Milka has done it.

It doesn't take into account any upgrades (yet), only DPS with the base weapons. Should be enough for now to compare basic squads.

Anyway, you can find it here
10 Sep 2014, 23:51 PM
#66
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

I like this change

I always used Sturms to take buildings and good cover, and now they will be even deadlier with the way I use them

This is also a de-facto survivability buff. CQC units tend to get wiped much more often than ranged units, so now if people are using sturms as they are meant to, you'll probably see them dying a bit less often. Especially with the nerfs to BARs and LMGs.
11 Sep 2014, 00:05 AM
#67
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Since this thread has derailed (in a positive way) towards squad ranges, dps etc. A mod should feel free to extent the thread title.

Updated my initial post with a link to TensaiOni's tool.

Guess if the damage nerf won't be taken back a bit or at least the costs adjusted it means #LearnToAdapt.
11 Sep 2014, 01:01 AM
#68
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 20:59 PMMoBo111


They are not armed with smg they are armed with assault rifles. SMGs are only good no close assault rifles close-mid range. It's a joke that sturmpioneers were nerfed, this will lead to more abusing and cheese and lesser possibilities for okw to defend against it. And nearly every allied core infantry was buffed, and the sturmpioneers were nerfed which is definietly a great idea.... And guys numbers are a fine thing, but thanks to rng they really don't do that much and the term "Midrange" is not really defined.


Well, maybe you are right, my info is from coh-stats:

It say : MP40 SMG.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp.

But i can't validate more then that.

11 Sep 2014, 01:02 AM
#69
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

Double post plz remove it .
11 Sep 2014, 01:13 AM
#70
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

AE are 260 MP and SP are 320 MP. Weapon wise they are probably the same. Utility wise I guess the SP are slightly better, but not much. Dunno if the 13% less received accuracy is enough to balance it out. I'd assume the AE are a tad too good (I'd price them at 270 or maybe even 280MP for their performance purely stat wise).


They do cost 280mp or are you referring that the call in is priced at 280mp but the unit value is 260mp ?
Only Relic postRelic 11 Sep 2014, 01:13 AM
#71
avatar of pqumsieh
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 267 | Subs: 8

Just to be clear, the Sturmpioneer along with every other infantry unit did not see a value change. They are worth the same, their stats were just optimized to better reflect their intended functionality. i.e. Sturmpioneers lost damage for durability. The idea is that when they close into an enemy unit, they receive less damage, therefore increasing the likelihood of having a whole squad over a partial squad. Their short-mid range damage output is already high enough in most cases that the reduction in damage that was applied will not result in the squad losing the given engagement.
11 Sep 2014, 01:28 AM
#72
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

Just to be clear, the Sturmpioneer along with every other infantry unit did not see a value change. They are worth the same, their stats were just optimized to better reflect their intended functionality. i.e. Sturmpioneers lost damage for durability. The idea is that when they close into an enemy unit, they receive less damage, therefore increasing the likelihood of having a whole squad over a partial squad. Their short-mid range damage output is already high enough in most cases that the reduction in damage that was applied will not result in the squad losing the given engagement.



Well sorry to burst your bubble, but practically speaking, it doesn't work like that. More often than not they get maxim spammed to death, with their optimal range for damage reduced to hugging distance they are now about as useless as regular pioneers.


Also to be perfectly honest, they were fine as they were prior to this patch. Which most people can agree is an overall nerf to their damage at almost all ranges, as shown by the graphs above.

Simply put Relic, you done f*cked up. I think many of us would be happier if you just reverted that Sturmpioneer change.
11 Sep 2014, 01:33 AM
#73
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2014, 01:28 AMSierra

Simply put Relic, you done f*cked up. I think many of us would be happier if you just reverted that Sturmpioneer change.
I wouldn't. The extra durability gives them more time to make manuevers through cover without losing models that it would have lost in the last patch.
11 Sep 2014, 01:40 AM
#74
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

I wouldn't. The extra durability gives them more time to make manuevers through cover without losing models that it would have lost in the last patch.



Sounds good on paper, means nothing in practical application. In reality they take just as much damage, and drop squad members long before reaching their optimal range of punching distance.

It is an overnerf, it is too much, and almost everyone who isn't Allied biased will tell you that it was unnecessary and unwarranted.
11 Sep 2014, 02:11 AM
#75
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2014, 01:40 AMSierra



Sounds good on paper, means nothing in practical application. In reality they take just as much damage, and drop squad members long before reaching their optimal range of punching distance.

It is an overnerf, it is too much, and almost everyone who isn't Allied biased will tell you that it was unnecessary and unwarranted.

I don't think you understand what practical or reality mean.
11 Sep 2014, 02:22 AM
#76
avatar of boc120

Posts: 245

Sierra, I don't know where you came from all of a sudden, but calm down. You are all over multiple threads with strongly worded complaints about sturmpios. Relic has an idea that they are trying to implement in regards to this unit. I don't think you can possibly have played enough games with the new patch to definitively say that it doesn't work as intended.
11 Sep 2014, 02:29 AM
#77
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2014, 02:22 AMboc120
Sierra, I don't know where you came from all of a sudden, but calm down. You are all over multiple threads with strongly worded complaints about sturmpios. Relic has an idea that they are trying to implement in regards to this unit. I don't think you can possibly have played enough games with the new patch to definitively say that it doesn't work as intended.


I honestly am tired of Relic's half baked "ideas" on how units "could" work... what sounds great on paper doesn't always work when applied. Think Communism, sounds great on paper, very very different in reality.
11 Sep 2014, 03:14 AM
#78
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
Game running to total non realistic combats.

Sgt44 act like little smg's now...

LOL!

Im sad, because this is a basic unit, imagine the "realistic" of tanks, at's, mg's, bombs, etc.
11 Sep 2014, 03:23 AM
#79
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

Lol Relic was doing a good job at balance or gameplay for the most part until they released OKW and US.

Both of those factions go against the idea of use of cover. United States lmgs or heavy machine guns are run and gun meat grinders of death even after this patch. OKW has the same play style with their elite inf armor and heavy anti-inf capabilities.

I really fucking hate it.

But these issues I bring up are mostly in 2v2s I can't speak for 1v1s.
11 Sep 2014, 04:04 AM
#80
avatar of MoBo111

Posts: 150



Well, maybe you are right, my info is from coh-stats:

It say : MP40 SMG.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/assault_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp.

But i can't validate more then that.



The Mp 40 is a SMG that's right, but sturmpioneers are armed with stg 44 or mp 44 which was the first assault rifle.
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