Conscripts post 9/9 patch

If that is the case, even merge has been nerfed. (Congrats Cannonade )

What are you even talking about.
Nothing was changed in terms of Merge.

Don't mention me ever again, especially not in a whine/"idontunderstand" thread of your own making.

Overall I think they feel better. You need to treat them with kid gloves and get them in cover, but they no longer need to hug the enemy to do damage, so you can more easily use them in a support role alongside Maxims or vehicles. Once vet 3 they are actually half decent now, doing respectable damage for their cost. You still need doctrinal infantry to do the heavy lifting, but they are a bit less dead weight late game.

Which means using Cons and heavily investing in them with Both Molos, AT nades, and PPSH still makes them bleeding drains. And one must STILL pick a doctrine with heavy infantry invalidating alot of doctrines without that I think are fun to use.

The last thing Scripts needed was to be able to die faster then they already did against OKW. As it stood keeping them reinforced was a bleed.

Instead of being infantry that are supported by snipers or Maxims. They are simply support for Snipers or Maxims. They arent and have not been since WFA anything more then a support squad.

I am sick to death of HAVING to use STs or Guards or support team spams (snipers/Maxims) to have any relevance in competitive play.

Please for the love of tripe stop the madness. Make Scripts relevant as infantry. Not a hinderance.

Which means using Cons and heavily investing in them with Both Molos, AT nades, and PPSH still makes them bleeding drains. And one must STILL pick a doctrine with heavy infantry invalidating alot of doctrines without that I think are fun to use.

The last thing Scripts needed was to be able to die faster then they already did against OKW. As it stood keeping them reinforced was a bleed.

Instead of being infantry that are supported by snipers or Maxims. They are simply support for Snipers or Maxims. They arent and have not been since WFA anything more then a support squad.

I am sick to death of HAVING to use STs or Guards or support team spams (snipers/Maxims) to have any relevance in competitive play.

Please for the love of tripe stop the madness. Make Scripts relevant as infantry. Not a hinderance.

+1


I hate having ot use "elite" infantry just to EVEN the scales a bit more while Ost can rely on grens and OKW can have mixed Volks and sturms (and a plethora of other great units). Cons are supposed to be the backbone of the Soviet force, yet, they function like little support troops running around and capping and dying.

Liberal use of oorah works to get cons into their effective range I use it on any important engagement. Yes later in the game they are just capping machines with an incredibly useful at snare. Similar to Volks.

On a side note penals actually fill their role of stand alone infantry quite well now. Triple vet penals are beast

Oh and lol at the posts saying that your sick of being forced to use combined arms. I actually like conscripts in a supportt role. At nades are still awesome and they still do enough damage to easily flank an mg. I don't understand the fuss. 3 maxims with 2 cons and a shock trooper squad is insanely fun to play

Liberal use of oorah works to get cons into their effective range I use it on any important engagement. Yes later in the game they are just capping machines with an incredibly useful at snare. Similar to Volks.

On a side note penals actually fill their role of stand alone infantry quite well now. Triple vet penals are beast

Oh and lol at the posts saying that your sick of being forced to use combined arms. I actually like conscripts in a supportt role. At nades are still awesome and they still do enough damage to easily flank an mg. I don't understand the fuss. 3 maxims with 2 cons and a shock trooper squad is insanely fun to play

I am not complaining about using combined arms, I love using combined arms strats (cons, MGs, mortars, ZiS). The trouble is that they drop like flies in the game. Obviously, other facitons have their elite units out such as Obersoldaten, PZGr, etc, but conscripts are supposed to be the bulk of the Soviet force, not the MAXIM!!! Where did I get the notion that cons are supposed to be the mainstay of the Soviet Army? Look at their description in COH2, also form reality!

I don't want them buffed all the way to godlike status where they can just tank shots like a boss, but right now, they are extremely lackluster, but the dps buff was a nice change. They shouldn't be the ones who support the HMG, the HMG should be supporting a force of conscripts. The current state of Soviet infantry just makes Maxim spam that more attractive. Penals and cons get wrecked, but Maxims can stand up to mainline Axis infantry, I think that is why they are spammed.

because I'm nice

This is really helpful Ipa. Could you please add a SVT rifle into this as well? Please please?

I find it hilarious that people keep talking about how great Penals are now. Penals didn't get changed at all.

Liberal use of oorah works to get cons into their effective range I use it on any important engagement. Yes later in the game they are just capping machines with an incredibly useful at snare. Similar to Volks.

On a side note penals actually fill their role of stand alone infantry quite well now. Triple vet penals are beast

Oh and lol at the posts saying that your sick of being forced to use combined arms. I actually like conscripts in a supportt role. At nades are still awesome and they still do enough damage to easily flank an mg. I don't understand the fuss. 3 maxims with 2 cons and a shock trooper squad is insanely fun to play

I didnt say I dont like using combined arms anywhere in my post. Infantry leads and support weapons...well...they support.

Conscripts now are more support weapons. They arent meant to lead any charge at least with cost efficiency. Getting close is great. Doing damage is great. But you are still taking more. At which point you lose models. Which is a bleed.

Soviets are backwards. Support teams like Maxims and Snipers lead where conscripts just act as support. Rather then playing OKW where my Infantry lead and support teams support them.

Either that or use STs and Guards for real infantry thus limiting your pool of commanders.

Conscripts are not and havent been a frontline infantry squad since WFA came out.

Edit:

TLDR using conscripts as infantry feels alot like trying to use an MG42 as infantry.

I find it hilarious that people keep talking about how great Penals are now. Penals didn't get changed at all.

Yes,, but thing is all starting infantry kind of got a nerf, and penals were not changed, which makes penals indirectly somewhat better.

I find it hilarious that people keep talking about how great Penals are now. Penals didn't get changed at all.

I will say one thing, penals in the clown car are still useful against OKW as you can bully volks and sturmpioneers in the early game giving your penals a good chance to vet up. Until they get AT you can pick off lone squads or even a volk and sturm squad if you focus the sturms first.

Yes,, but thing is all starting infantry kind of got a nerf, and penals were not changed, which makes penals indirectly somewhat better.

Sweet lets apply the same logic to the SU76. Nerf the SU85 and adjust all tank damage then it too may be useful LOL.

Yes,, but thing is all starting infantry kind of got a nerf, and penals were not changed, which makes penals indirectly somewhat better.

If you have a dump and take another dump next to it, the first one won't magically smell like flowers and turn into chocolate.
You'll simply have 2 dumps.

That is the situation of current soviet core infantry and with guards being battered as well, pretty much only mainline infantry soviets have that actually can fight are shock troops.

Relic wants soviets to spam snipers and maxims.

Just to be clear, the Sturmpioneer along with every other infantry unit did not see a value change. They are worth the same, their stats were just optimized to better reflect their intended functionality. i.e. Sturmpioneers lost damage for durability. The idea is that when they close into an enemy unit, they receive less damage, therefore increasing the likelihood of having a whole squad over a partial squad. Their short-mid range damage output is already high enough in most cases that the reduction in damage that was applied will not result in the squad losing the given engagement.

Could you delve into that a bit further and explain why Conscripts received an incoming accuracy penalty? Being best suited to close range combat that 9% penalty makes it harder to get them into damage dealing range without suffering losses that greatly reduce their ability to perform. I'm not giving out I just want to know the thought process behind the decision. Unless conscripts intended functionality is to die (Are conscripts the only core infantry to have an incoming accuracy penalty? It seems keeping them at mid range in green cover is the best way to go now, that way they can actually do some damage back and hold their ground for a while.

Are conscripts the only core infantry to have an incoming accuracy penalty?

Yes.

Going back to the core concepts of conscripts is they are cannon fodder who through sheer numbers get that Molotov or at grenade off or through slow attrition defeat the superior german infantry so this change is emphasising this. Looking at the stat changes it appears they can do a bit more damage in range meaning also that in defensive positions they may also perform a bit better.

Whether the costs to build or reinforce is quite right is up for debate. I tend to use conscripts as the forward scouts and spotters or meat shields for support weapons. Others like the human wave approach. Quite simply you are expected to lose rather a lot of them

because I'm nice

That graphis not entirely accurate. Drop off for the old mosin started at 4 for example but because this graph has x axis of 5 it doesnt translate correctly.
It evens out with a slower dropoff ofcourse but keep that in mind

Going back to the core concepts of conscripts is they are cannon fodder who through sheer numbers get that Molotov or at grenade off or through slow attrition defeat the superior german infantry so this change is emphasising this. Looking at the stat changes it appears they can do a bit more damage in range meaning also that in defensive positions they may also perform a bit better.

Whether the costs to build or reinforce is quite right is up for debate. I tend to use conscripts as the forward scouts and spotters or meat shields for support weapons. Others like the human wave approach. Quite simply you are expected to lose rather a lot of them

Which is not cost effective. And just hurts you more by feeding enemy units with veterancy that will cause a snowball effect. The more you lose the more they gain the more you lose....


If they want Conscripts to be merely meat shields make all three of their vet have armor in it. They should be as durable as Volks.

Volks too arent meant to be combat troops. But Volks arent a bleed like scripts are.

Which is not cost effective. And just hurts you more by feeding enemy units with veterancy that will cause a snowball effect. The more you lose the more they gain the more you lose....


If they want Conscripts to be merely meat shields make all three of their vet have armor in it. They should be as durable as Volks.

Volks too arent meant to be combat troops. But Volks arent a bleed like scripts are.

You are right in the danger if feeding too many to the enemy but you are meant to overwhelm early game in this way. As we know they don't scale.

Going back to the ww2 theme argument Volks were rarely used in the way soviet conscripts were. They tended to be in secondary defensive roles whilst core german infantry made all the offensive attacks.

The numbers may or may not be right but I respect what I think relic is trying to do. The real problem is the rest of the soviet faction infantry design which has been muddled and chopped up as witnessed by the early changes if penals from long range damage to short range glass cannons overlapping roles with cons and the move of guards to a doctrinal choice. In hindsight I think what would have been fun would be fodder conscripts giving way to a stronger AI guard unit later in the game which the cons would act as support to. I guess this kind of happens if it weren't for the halfway house of guards as semi AT and a bit meh vs inf. plus being doctrinal

My feeling is that relic may work further on the other soviet faction once these changes have settled

You are right in the danger if feeding too many to the enemy but you are meant to overwhelm early game in this way. As we know they don't scale.

Going back to the ww2 theme argument Volks were rarely used in the way soviet conscripts were. They tended to be in secondary defensive roles whilst core german infantry made all the offensive attacks.

The numbers may or may not be right but I respect what I think relic is trying to do. The real problem is the rest of the soviet faction infantry design which has been muddled and chopped up as witnessed by the early changes if penals from long range damage to short range glass cannons overlapping roles with cons and the move of guards to a doctrinal choice. In hindsight I think what would have been fun would be fodder conscripts giving way to a stronger AI guard unit later in the game which the cons would act as support to. I guess this kind of happens if it weren't for the halfway house of guards as semi AT and a bit meh vs inf. plus being doctrinal

My feeling is that relic may work further on the other soviet faction once these changes have settled

There's just one thing wrong with that vision of the conscript squad. Veterancy and unit survival are key to winning games in CoH2 and making conscripts that unit that is meant to die in droves goes against that not to mention it's not fun to play. Nobody likes seeing their units drop so quick and just feed the long range axis infantry vet to the point where closing in becomes extremely difficult.

Funnily enough if we talk about the 9% penalty buff on cons and the 0.91 bonus on grens it's like 5.5 cons vs. 4.4 worth of grens now in terms of small arms fire. Conscripts still have the advantage in tanking explosive damage but the lines are starting to blur in terms of survivability.

Liberal use of oorah works to get cons into their effective range I use it on any important engagement. Yes later in the game they are just capping machines with an incredibly useful at snare. Similar to Volks.

On a side note penals actually fill their role of stand alone infantry quite well now. Triple vet penals are beast

Oh and lol at the posts saying that your sick of being forced to use combined arms. I actually like conscripts in a supportt role. At nades are still awesome and they still do enough damage to easily flank an mg. I don't understand the fuss. 3 maxims with 2 cons and a shock trooper squad is insanely fun to play

IF you can get your Penals to vet 3. Which a good opponent won't let you, because they are a close range squad that have no way to close the gap, have a lackluster ''grenade'' and aren't particularily tough. They can easily become a big Mp drain, especially against OKW who can shut them down pronto with a Kubel, never mind the shiny new flak HT of doom. Not to mention choosing them basically forces you to get Guards for your AT unless you like being utterly defenseless even against 222s until you fork over the fuel for T3-T4.

Volks are also much better mainline infantry than conscripts, speaking as someone who uses both. They're insanely durable with vet, get the good shrecks, don't need any fuel investment to scale, and a most importantly they aren't a big MP bleed. I know I would switch my conscripts for Volks in a heartbeat.

The problem in your example is that Maxims and Shocks pretty much always do the heavy lifting (I know, I use this build a lot too). Your conscripts are here to die instead of your Maxim crewmen and toss AT nades against poorly microed vehicles. If you're lucky they get kills against the infantry suppressed by the Maxims. But the conscripts are by far the least useful unit in the trifecta, you could remove them and Shocks + Maxims would still function very well so long as you have AT backing it up.

The conscript buff is a step in the right direction overall. But they are still the most lackluster basic infantry in the game by a relatively big margin.