Penalty for losing the soviet sniper aid?

Is there any penalty for losing the soviet sniper aid? By aid I mean the second solider in the soviet sniper team that does not fire the sniper rifle. Does losing the first solider effect the performance of the sniper squad or just makes it more vulnerable to dying?

He costs 90MP to reinforce. I'd say that's a penalty.

He costs 90MP to reinforce. I'd say that's a penalty.

And takes a lot of time to reinforce.

not really; not for the survivability he gives.

You lose DPS

I always had this idea that you SHOULD lose LOS if you lost your spotter.

A pitiful 90MP, which is definately the first thing that needs to be dramatically increased in order to balance.

Can't snipe. It makes more sense and would allow ostheer snipers to safely counter snipe even if it's still more risky. Bring back counter sniping!

I'd prefer this penalty rather than nerfing the unit... solves some of the issues with a 2 man sniper squad.

Can't snipe. It makes more sense and would allow ostheer snipers to safely counter snipe even if it's still more risky. Bring back counter sniping!

I'd prefer this penalty rather than nerfing the unit... solves some of the issues with a 2 man sniper squad.

That's actually a nice idea. I'd increase the cost to reinforce too, but that would be good already

You lose DPS

I always had this idea that you SHOULD lose LOS if you lost your spotter.

So the second team member is called a spotter, good to know.

I call him Meatshield Mikhael.

Nice idea to have LOS drop off massively or be unable to shoot without the spotter.

He costs 90MP to reinforce. I'd say that's a penalty.

Wehr snipers still cost 360 MP to reinforce. Would say something has to be changed as many did before me.

i dont know why people talk about 90 manpower like its nothing. 90 manpower is a LOT for a single infantry soldier. espeically since it doesnt really fight, all he does is breath and retreat to preserve veterency of a unit that has declining usefulness as the game progresses.

sure, it it. but the sniper does a LOT of damage for a single soldier.

He costs 90MP to reinforce. I'd say that's a penalty.

Still sooooo much more worth it than losing the squad itself.

90 mp to keep a unit like this alive it nothing. This 90 mp make a counter sniper totally useless and rise the surviveability of this unit such in a unproportional rate. Theoretically it could be even possible that the 2 guys spread out and can not be killed with a single mortar shot (but like I said, theoretically)

And 90 mp for one soldier ok it is high, but compare:

1 shoot sniper = 1 dead soldier (if rng doesn't fail)
it is also a long range unit (according to CoH2 Stats, a range of 45). To say it basically, it outranges nearly every infantry unit.
So it wont be 1 shoot and then retreat and reinforce, it will be like, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, spotter died, back.

90 MP = at least more than 90 mp if you just kill pioneers with these 6 shots ...

Personally i like these 2 ideas with, but i prefer the LOS penalty in combination with a higher reinforcement cost (120). So you have to micro snipers, which lost their spotter, if you want to keep up the fight (forward reconnaissance, etc.) and you can't just spam them, because of that higher reinforcement cost, you will provide a new meta in the sniper Gameplay.

If the soviet sniper Gameplay gets a new meta, the ostheer one will get one as well and provides more creative builds in the Ostheers Tiers and even he can start playing with snipers again, without any disadvantage.

I also like the idea, that ce can not shoot, but I guess this would be a little bit too much

90 mp to keep a unit like this alive it nothing. This 90 mp make a counter sniper totally useless and rise the surviveability of this unit such in a unproportional rate. Theoretically it could be even possible that the 2 guys spread out and can not be killed with a single mortar shot (but like I said, theoretically)

And 90 mp for one soldier ok it is high, but compare:

1 shoot sniper = 1 dead soldier (if rng doesn't fail)
it is also a long range unit (according to CoH2 Stats, a range of 45). To say it basically, it outranges nearly every infantry unit.
So it wont be 1 shoot and then retreat and reinforce, it will be like, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, spotter died, back.

90 MP = at least more than 90 mp if you just kill pioneers with these 6 shots ...

Personally i like these 2 ideas with, but i prefer the LOS penalty in combination with a higher reinforcement cost (120). So you have to micro snipers, which lost their spotter, if you want to keep up the fight (forward reconnaissance, etc.) and you can't just spam them, because of that higher reinforcement cost, you will provide a new meta in the sniper Gameplay.

If the soviet sniper Gameplay gets a new meta, the ostheer one will get one as well and provides more creative builds in the Ostheers Tiers and even he can start playing with snipers again, without any disadvantage.

I also like the idea, that ce can not shoot, but I guess this would be a little bit too much

I dont disagree with what you are saying, but the ost sniper is even worse than the soviet sniper to play against because of its very fast reload. Try going against it in team games as USF, its a nightmare. I had many games where my sniper did 50+ kills in a 30 min games. That is just way too much for a single unit to do.

You are right, but that's a new topic we could discuss in another whole single topic

For sure it is hard to counter the Ost sniper, especially as USF, but through this you shouldn't overperform the counterpart so heavy, that he is not just a counter to the Ost sniper, but rather a hard counter to every axis inf and, if we are honest, that is a real pain in the ass ^^

And the difference is, that the current axis sniper doesn't provide a whole new meta to the whole gameplay at all just like the soviet one does.

But like I mentioned before, you are right, if the sov sniper gets a nerf like this, the ost sniper also needs some slightly nerfs

But one thing i would disagree:

I had many games where my sniper did 50+ kills in a 30 min games. That is just way too much for a single unit to do.

If you microed him right, that is the reward you earn that is the reason you build this unit and if it was the right hardcounter you reach this remember my stuka

I dont disagree with what you are saying, but the ost sniper is even worse than the soviet sniper to play against because of its very fast reload. Try going against it in team games as USF, its a nightmare. I had many games where my sniper did 50+ kills in a 30 min games. That is just way too much for a single unit to do.

keep in mind that the german sniper shoots almost exactly (a little less) 50% faster. that speed only negates the 50% larger squad size. that means a german sniper will kill 6 men in about the same time a soviet kills 4. also, 50+ kills isnt that crazy when you keep the squad sizes in mind. thats like getting 33 kills with the soviet sniper which isnt unusual at all.

the 50% difference in rate of fire means the german sniper should be just as easy/hard to catch as the soviet sniper, at least in theory. in reality, the soviet sniper is much much harder to catch. first of all, people will retreat with 1-2 entities left. in either case, the german snipers speed is not as useful as it should be. in the time the soviet has taken 2 shots, the german has taken 3. both squads would now be at half hp, but the german squad is at a much higher risk of a squad wipe and would be more likely to retreat now.

if the german squad risks it and gets shot again, its now down to the last entity, but the soviet squad will still be at 2 men. so the soviet has taken 3 shots, but the german has only taken 4.5 (halfway to the 5th shot). thats not even mentioning the difference in durability, abilities (sprint), the synergy between two soviet snipers, or the time it takes to turn and take a shot (fewer shots = more time moving = harder to catch), but its safe to say a soviet sniper can kite and force retreats much easier than a german.

and that doesn't get into available counters either. soviets have a plethora of hard, firm, and soft counters available in all tiers, some of which are very hard for OKH to deal with, especially in time to prevent the sniper dieing. OKH and OKW have a great many very soft counters and a couple of firm counters (some RNG based), and the better ones are not available when the sniper comes out. further more units like the 221/222 are hard countered by other units to the point that they cannot kill the sniper.

soviet snipers just have better synergy with the faction and are more powerful.