Thoughts on the Kubelwagen

I think it needs a fuel cost.

Such a fantastic unit for OKW that works wonders with a nearby sturmpioneersquad or on its own.

Can reverse in a heartbeat, very maneuverable, fast and frustratingly hard to kill even with bazookas (they miss alot).

It can rotate on the spot to suppress/deal dmg in another arc and unlike an MG squad it doesn't have to pack up. This makes it difficult to flank at the best of times as it can just slam it into reverse to create a new suppression arc.

Incredibly annoying to find your cutoff locked down in the first minute or two by 1 kubel and sturmpioneer/volks which is a nasty combination to tackle with just riflemen.

To compare it with the wc51 for the US which has a 20 fuel cost and no suppression. Yes it does do more damage and has a transport capacity however it will struggle to 1v1 a lone kubel or squad and it is doctrine specific. Is the 0 fuel cost reasonable compared to 20?

It should be noted that this is from the perspective of a mainly 2v2 player and I'm aware that it can be managed more effectively in 1v1. The argument I think is still fair.

Prepare your anus.

It needs to be 40 fuel more reasonably, since OP clearly & fairly argued that it's superior to the 20 fuel WCS.

You're not serious, are you? :/

Kubel is fine as it is.

It can rotate on the spot to suppress/deal dmg in another arc and unlike an MG squad it doesn't have to pack up. This makes it difficult to flank at the best of times as it can just slam it into reverse to create a new suppression arc.

lool this deud

It is only 30 more manpower than the Fortification Doctrine MG34 Heavy Machine Gun Team and it comes at 0CP. It has a better reload time(super quick btw) and has good LOS which makes sense since it is a scouting unit but the combination of Suppression, LOS and Mobility is too powerful for a unit this early. It can spot riflemen long before riflemen can see the Kubel so flanking becomes harder. It also has better accuracy short and long range than the MG34 Team. It has however a shorter range but that makes up for its mobility. It also does have a smaller arc but it can rotate on the spot and suppress units in thick green cover within seconds which makes it incredible hard to contest against this unit. In combination with Sturmpioneers this can be very effectove early on and you can easily lockdown areas with it. Imo a 10 fuel increase for me is justified.

10 fuel increase? ok but give it more range and a bit more health, then you can.

I think it needs a fuel cost.

Such a fantastic unit for OKW that works wonders with a nearby sturmpioneersquad or on its own.

Can reverse in a heartbeat, very maneuverable, fast and frustratingly hard to kill even with bazookas (they miss alot).

It can rotate on the spot to suppress/deal dmg in another arc and unlike an MG squad it doesn't have to pack up. This makes it difficult to flank at the best of times as it can just slam it into reverse to create a new suppression arc.

Incredibly annoying to find your cutoff locked down in the first minute or two by 1 kubel and sturmpioneer/volks which is a nasty combination to tackle with just riflemen.

To compare it with the wc51 for the US which has a 20 fuel cost and no suppression. Yes it does do more damage and has a transport capacity however it will struggle to 1v1 a lone kubel or squad and it is doctrine specific. Is the 0 fuel cost reasonable compared to 20?

It should be noted that this is from the perspective of a mainly 2v2 player and I'm aware that it can be managed more effectively in 1v1. The argument I think is still fair.

The kubel is perfect in my eyes. It is ofc deadly in the hands of a skilled micro player. IMO: don't touch my kubel!

Okay first of all the Kubel doesn't insta suppress things. You have to wait like 4-5 seconds or so for it to start suppressing things, it can't just turn around and suppress everything as you say it can.

The 50. Cal mounted on the US vehicles and some of the soviet ones kills Kubels very quickly.

In 1v1 the Kübelwagen is easily flanked and loses its impact rather early - people are actually more inclined to give it a buff in form of extended late game utility, from what i sense.

In 2v2 things look very different. You should have put the disclaimer "...from the perspective of mainly a 2v2 player" at the top of your thread, or people will go crazy and do unspeakable things to your anus.

I will agree that the Kübelwagen and Sturmpionier combo can be surprisingly effective early on on small maps, for example Road to kharkov. But that has mainly to do with 1v1 maps that are used as 2v2 maps and don't leave enough room to flank. You won't get that much mileage on open and bigger 2v2 maps out of the Kübelwagen.

I don't think the kubelwagen can reverse in a heartbeat. In my experience the kubelwagen always move forward a little bit before backing up. I don't know why but it delays them from reversing.

I don't think the kubelwagen can reverse in a heartbeat. In my experience the kubelwagen always move forward a little bit before backing up. I don't know why but it delays them from reversing.

Yes, it is nerve-racking. And how maneuverable it is you can also admire when it does again a 270° spin on the spot when a 90° rotation the other way around would have been more efficient.

so they say Kubel > Jeep? watch a Jeep kill a squad on retreat

Yes, it is nerve-racking. And how maneuverable it is you can also admire when it does again a 270° spin on the spot when a 90° rotation the other way around would have been more efficient.

Very good I agree that it's not Vorspung durch Technik

I think anyone you says the kubel is OP just needs to drive one around, it has the worst pathing in the game and that is saying something.
>Driving forward when ordered to reverse? Check
>Crazy Uturns when reversed manually? Check
>Tokyo drifts? Check
Don't get me wrong it is a good unit, but if they are going to increase it's price than fix the pathing for godsake

I don't think the kubelwagen can reverse in a heartbeat. In my experience the kubelwagen always move forward a little bit before backing up. I don't know why but it delays them from reversing.

That has to do with the stupid 3-point-turn of light vehicles. Yes, it might be more realistic, but no vehicle should handle like that in a game with notoriously bad pathing.

The 221/2 was plagued with this as well, until they removed this "feature" because they somehow realized it might be more fun if vehicles would actually back up first and not drive straight forward if you give them the order to reverse.

That has to do with the stupid 3-point-turn of light vehicles. Yes, it might be more realistic, but no vehicle should handle like that in a game with notoriously bad pathing.

The 221/2 was plagued with this as well, until they removed this "feature" because they somehow realized it might be more fun if vehicles would actually back up first and not drive straight forward if you give them the order to reverse.

Thanks for that explanation, G'gap. Now I know it's not just my cr@p micro.

Hi all

I had considered the possibility of a fuel cost for kunbel but the reason is different, it was to give the kunbel damage when firing on the move, the idea is to make it a good counter vs snipers, the suppression mode would remain as it is, and when firing on the move it would deal damage like any other light vehicle, this way you could actually chase and kill snipers on retreat.

To many times kunbel gets close to a sniper fires a burst and kills a model, and opponent realizes hes being flanked just retreats and kunbel cant finish second model on retreat, very frustrating considering any other light vehicle would get the sniper.

The fuel cost cant be to high otherwise a 240 mp with more than 10 fuel cost would clearly underperformed when compared to m3 170 mp and 15 fuel.

As for the kunbel itself its not that difficult to handle, either flank with rifle squads, 3 at least preferably with vet 1 or go for fast m-20, your opponent should only have 1 shreck and you can pop smoke to retreat safely + well placed AT mines will stop the predictable puma or panzer II answer from your opponent.

If I recall correctly the jeep and bike from vCoH were both unable to cause suppression and both were incredibly soft targets. If caught in a bad position they could quickly lose most of their health to a lone unit and ever suffer some engine criticals accelerating their death.

The bike was priced with this in mind at 180 (less health than the jeep)the jeep was 220. So 20 more mp you get suppression, genuine damage dealing and a sliver more health (if the hitpoints between the two games are comparable).

Fair point on the path finding that is definitely a negative (like alot of units including the wc51).

Food for thought.