My thoughts & ideas on Conscripts

If Oorah/Merge and 6man with cheaper reinforce is so shit in your view, and ATNade/Molotov upgrades unfair and crap in performance, then lets just make Cons a complete Gren analog with 4man, free AT/Molotov upgrade at T1-T4, remove Oorah/Merge entirely, and a DP upgrade that has exactly LMG stats. Also give Molotovs the same range as Rnade too

Hell, well even throw in Bunker building too!

We heard you like Grens, so we put some Grens in your build, so you can Gren when you Sov.

Im sure this will be great for your balance, and we wont have to see these threads ever again.

I need a bit more then this. is this change going to be just cosmetic or has it impact on how the former penals are going to behave. i also doubt the engine can handle such a change.

Change their cheap brown clothing to Guards premium designer's clothing and stats to the Guards that come with the HT like in the Lend Lease doctrine. For a price of course

Change their cheap brown clothing to Guards premium designer's clothing and stats to the Guards that come with the HT like in the Lend Lease doctrine. For a price of course

Why stop there?

How about V3 Cons can be transformed into V3 Guards OR Shocks?
Would sort of make Guard/Shock Commanders entirely useless, but who cares as long as Cons cando it, right?

Dat knee jerk reactions from axis only heroes are priceless. The butthurt about the sole thought of conscripts getting some love will be felt by our grand grandkids.

How about you try to play soviets for few games and see how awesome and uber cons are?

Why stop there?

How about V3 Cons can be transformed into V3 Guards OR Shocks?
Would sort of make Guard/Shock Commanders entirely useless, but who cares as long as Cons cando it, right?

Now I know you're thinking that I'm a Soviet fanboy or mainly Soviet player but I prefer the German army especially Ostheer.

So when did Merge become this awesome ability that must be mentioned with every post?

I use it occasionally to keep a unit in the field every now and then, but the way some of you talk it up you make it sound like it's a game-winning ability.

I started this thread thinking my idea was pretty tame, and even hardcore axis fanboys would be in support of a possible alternative to maxim/sniper spam. It's amusing watching some people squirm at the thought of conscripts being useful in some way.

So when did Merge become this awesome ability that must be mentioned with every post?

I use it occasionally to keep a unit in the field every now and then, but the way some of you talk it up you make it sound like it's a game-winning ability.

Exactly.
And you know why they talk about it so much?

Because it is the only thing that cons have over third reich ubermensch.
They realize that all other stats are either inferior or axis infantry can have it one way or another, so apparently merge is so op now that conscripts don't need anything, even if we have posts of top players saying they do need some love because they are unusable as infantry and for capping duty I can have CEs that can mine and actually fight with flamers.

But as you've said, according to them the merge is so awesome game changer, what early 251 ht must be? should be IWIN button with their kind of logic and believe me, it would be IWIN button if it was on allies side.

So when did Merge become this awesome ability that must be mentioned with every post?

I use it occasionally to keep a unit in the field every now and then, but the way some of you talk it up you make it sound like it's a game-winning ability.

I started this thread thinking my idea was pretty tame, and even hardcore axis fanboys would be in support of a possible alternative to maxim/sniper spam. It's amusing watching some people squirm at the thought of conscripts being useful in some way.

I think the tension in this thread has become a bit high so we should all try to calm down a bit so we can get back to discussing the topic at hand.

I would agree with you that I would think that those who are sick of seeing Soviets choosing maxim spam, sniper spam would be happy to see that go away. It would also reduce the problem of conscript squad losses not seeming to matter as right now in late game vet 0 or vet 3 they are still going to be making very little impact on the game.

So let's go through this looking at the abilities a conscript can have:

Oorah: Very useful ability, allows conscripts to get up closer and deal more damage while taking less casualties as well as chasing down vehicles to throw AT nades. Can drain MP if used a lot.

Merge: A useful ability but not as great as many in here claim, yes it can keep a support weapon in combat longer but this means you will have a conscript squad ferrying up and down to this support weapon instead of capping etc. so you gain something but also lose something i.e. a squad is still going to need to be reinforced. It does have it's uses though and I will not deny that.

AT nade (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful to slow enemy vehicles down so that heavier AT can move into place and finish the vehicle off. Can be frustrating sometimes to see multiple nades bounce off without causing a crit. Also has an attached cost before access, but still this is a useful ability.

Molotovs (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful on buildings, and for denying cover. Can sometimes cause flame crits which can drop an MG team pretty fast. Long wind-up time and short range means that many times you will end up having to retreat after throwing it, also has an associated cost.

Flare mine (Vet 1): Can be useful to track enemy movements but I don't see many people using it, for 30 muni you can plant a mine that will kill more and perhaps cause the enemy to need to retreat to reinforce, still gives you an idea of enemy movement.

There is also the doctrinal conscript repair which is a very nice ability allowing you to keep tanks on the front lines and the doctrinal ppsh which can make vet 3 conscripts in close range be able to hold there own better in late game.

Now my suggestion for late game would be this, once you have built Tier 3 or 4 an option should become available at the HQ to unlock frontoviki squads. Once you have purchased this upgrade, any vet 3 conscripts at the HQ can be upgraded to frontoviki squads for a price.
I am open to suggestions on what this upgrade will give them, perhaps access to weaponry or slightly better stats.
To balance this upgrade out the MP cost to reinforce would go up by 5 to represent their increased combat efficency.
I feel this would make Soviet players more likely to try and keep Cons alive to vet 3 rather than throw them in the meat-grinder. It would also drain resources to convert units so if they wish to do this it might delay their T3/T4 armour appearing early. It would also be an advantage of not just building tier 2 and waiting for call ins.

I think the tension in this thread has become a bit high so we should all try to calm down a bit so we can get back to discussing the topic at hand.

I would agree with you that I would think that those who are sick of seeing Soviets choosing maxim spam, sniper spam would be happy to see that go away. It would also reduce the problem of conscript squad losses not seeming to matter as right now in late game vet 0 or vet 3 they are still going to be making very little impact on the game.

So let's go through this looking at the abilities a conscript can have:

Oorah: Very useful ability, allows conscripts to get up closer and deal more damage while taking less casualties as well as chasing down vehicles to throw AT nades. Can drain MP if used a lot.

Merge: A useful ability but not as great as many in here claim, yes it can keep a support weapon in combat longer but this means you will have a conscript squad ferrying up and down to this support weapon instead of capping etc. so you gain something but also lose something i.e. a squad is still going to need to be reinforced. It does have it's uses though and I will not deny that.

AT nade (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful to slow enemy vehicles down so that heavier AT can move into place and finish the vehicle off. Can be frustrating sometimes to see multiple nades bounce off without causing a crit. Also has an attached cost before access, but still this is a useful ability.

Molotovs (125MP and 25 fuel to unlock): Useful on buildings, and for denying cover. Can sometimes cause flame crits which can drop an MG team pretty fast. Long wind-up time and short range means that many times you will end up having to retreat after throwing it, also has an associated cost.

Flare mine (Vet 1): Can be useful to track enemy movements but I don't see many people using it, for 30 muni you can plant a mine that will kill more and perhaps cause the enemy to need to retreat to reinforce, still gives you an idea of enemy movement.

There is also the doctrinal conscript repair which is a very nice ability allowing you to keep tanks on the front lines and the doctrinal ppsh which can make vet 3 conscripts in close range be able to hold there own better in late game.

Now my suggestion for late game would be this, once you have built Tier 3 or 4 an option should become available at the HQ to unlock frontoviki squads. Once you have purchased this upgrade, any vet 3 conscripts at the HQ can be upgraded to frontoviki squads for a price.
I am open to suggestions on what this upgrade will give them, perhaps access to weaponry or slightly better stats.
To balance this upgrade out the MP cost to reinforce would go up by 5 to represent their increased combat efficency.
I feel this would make Soviet players more likely to try and keep Cons alive to vet 3 rather than throw them in the meat-grinder. It would also drain resources to convert units so if they wish to do this it might delay their T3/T4 armour appearing early. It would also be an advantage of not just building tier 2 and waiting for call ins.

A bunch of PPS43 or a single DP28.

A bunch of PPS43 or a single DP28.

Both good suggestions, I prefer the pps43 suggestion though as it ties in with the idea of conscripts being close range fighters. The only problem is where would this leave the doctrinal ppsh?

In regards to the DP28, while it would give them more bite at longer ranges I think it would be better if that option was available to Penal troops (a long with penal troops being changed to a more middle range fighting squad).

Both good suggestions, I prefer the pps43 suggestion though as it ties in with the idea of conscripts being close range fighters. The only problem is where would this leave the doctrinal ppsh?

In regards to the DP28, while it would give them more bite at longer ranges I think it would be better if that option was available to Penal troops (a long with penal troops being changed to a more middle range fighting squad).

How about the PPS43 is worse than the PPSH and when you choose a doctrine with PPSH it replaces the PPS43 package.

How about the PPS43 is worse than the PPSH and when you choose a doctrine with PPSH it replaces the PPS43 package.

That's a nice solution to the problem, those who choose the doctrine still have an advantage over those who don't while also preserving the idea of conscripts doing best at close range.
It would allow them to scale better and give them that bit more of a punch once in close range while taking away from some of their mid/long range dps.

Hopefully relic are taking note of how many people feel a change is needed but we can only wait and see!

If Cons get a native weapon upgrade option, kind of makes Grens look shit for having no Oorah/Merge native equivalents, dont you think?

Perhaps then Grens should also atleast get Sprint or perhaps Camo from the start as native to equal Oorah? Medikit could also then be made native to equal Merge, and another Vet ability put in its place.

Sounds like fun, now that I think of it.

If Cons get a native weapon upgrade option, kind of makes Grens look shit for having no Oorah/Merge native equivalents, dont you think?

Perhaps then Grens should also atleast get Sprint or perhaps Camo from the start as native? Medikit could also then be made native, and another Vet ability put in.

Maybe change the weapons to be like the old system? LMG short range G43 and SVT long range. Just have to make sure the LMG42 don't destroy the PPS43 conscripts at point blank every time.

Or make the LMG have highest DPS at mid range and slighty lower at short and long.

If Cons get a native weapon upgrade option, kind of makes Grens look shit for having no Oorah/Merge native equivalents, dont you think?

By that logic, volks already make cons look like shit and rifles are most shitty infantry in game as they start with absolutely nothing unless you pour fuel on them.

As terrified of that thought as you are, no, grens position will be safe.

By that logic, volks already make cons look like shit and rifles are most shitty infantry in game as they start with absolutely nothing unless you pour fuel on them.

As terrified of that thought as you are, no, grens position will be safe.

Well no.

Becuase by your logic, if Cons fot a native weapon upgrade, Grens would infsct be the shittiest of them all..

Im glad you recognise that, according to your logic

Also, now that I think of it, Cons would also need a higher reinforce cost once they do get a native weapon upgrade, cos otherwise they continue to carry the 6man advantage unfairly in comparison (and comparison is necessary, or otherwise we are talking in a vaccuum).

If Cons have a native weapon upgrade option, like Grens do with LMG, then it would pretty directly necessitate Grens to also have 2 native abilities to match Oorah and Merge.

How about Sprint and Medikit? They are sort of rough equivalents. They can have another Vet ability instead then.

Exactly.
And you know why they talk about it so much?

Because it is the only thing that cons have over third reich ubermensch.
They realize that all other stats are either inferior or axis infantry can have it one way or another, so apparently merge is so op now that conscripts don't need anything, even if we have posts of top players saying they do need some love because they are unusable as infantry and for capping duty I can have CEs that can mine and actually fight with flamers.

But as you've said, according to them the merge is so awesome game changer, what early 251 ht must be? should be IWIN button with their kind of logic and believe me, it would be IWIN button if it was on allies side.

So you ignore the fact that i mentioned that penals should get a dp lmg upgrade. you ignore that i suggested all smg's should get 100 % fotm which would greatly benefit scripts and shocks. but you do decide to cherry pick the fact that i suggested that assault rifles get 100 % fotm once again showing your ignorance and bias at the same because mp44 fg42 and BARS are all assault rifles. my suggestion would have buffed the american main AI as well . so way to go derailing a thread where i actually agreed in buffing certain underperforming allied units. and you wonder why i consider you a biased ignoramus.

Well no.

Becuase by your logic, if Cons fot a native weapon upgrade, Grens would infsct be the shittiest of them all..

Im glad you recognise that, according to your logic

If Cons have a native weapon upgrade option, like Grens do with LMG, then it would pretty directly necessitate Grens to also have 2 native abilities to match Oorah and Merge.

How about Sprint and Medikit? They are sort of rough equivalents. They can have another Vet ability instead then.

Ok then how about with that HQ frontoviki upgrade that I suggested (keep in mind you would first have to unlock it from the HQ and then upgrade each squad individually and they would have to be vet 3), which would be a resource drain, as well as the increase to reinforce by 5) you also remove merge from the upgraded squad as these guys are meant to represent experienced Soviet soldiers and they are nor cannon fodder to be joined to a depleted weapons team?

Well no.

Becuase by your logic, if Cons fot a native weapon upgrade, Grens would infsct be the shittiest of them all..

Im glad you recognise that, according to your logic

That is still yours(extremely flawed and based on knee jerk reactions) logic. Trying to enforce it onto me doesn't make it mine. Its also your opinion, not a fact based on what exactly? Nothing but paranoia.

I'm sad that you don't recognize that.
I usually like throwing the ball against a concrete wall, but in your case its not even fun so I'll leave you with that.

If Cons have a native weapon upgrade option, like Grens do with LMG, then it would pretty directly necessitate Grens to also have 2 native abilities to match Oorah and Merge.

When T34 got damage buffs from initial 80 damage to current 160 I don't remind myself seeing P4s getting laser turrets. If you buff underpowered unit, you don't overbuff in rewturn the unit it fights against, leading to a step one, where the first unit is still underpowered. Its a simple concept, but take your time and let it sink.

So you ignore the fact that i mentioned that penals should get a dp lmg upgrade. you ignore that i suggested all smg's should get 100 % fotm which would greatly benefit scripts and shocks. but you do decide to cherry pick the fact that i suggested that assault rifles get 100 % fotm once again showing your ignorance and bias at the same because mp44 fg42 and BARS are all assault rifles. my suggestion would have buffed the american main AI as well . so way to go derailing a thread where i actually agreed in buffing certain underperforming allied units. and you wonder why i consider you a biased ignoramus.

I think what he was pointing to was that the fg42 (long range), mp44 (medium/short range) and BARS (medium range) are in a pretty good spot atm. You really notice the damage they can do once in their optimal range.

Mp40 and ppsh could do with the 100% fotm as they need to get into very close range to be effective, hence you must be moving for a longer period of time to get into optimal range.