Jagdtiger - The Gamebreaker

If I remember correctly, in vCOH there was only one unit that exceeded in range any othe unit. That was the 88. But that was a static gun, exposed to artillery and infantry fire, being meanwhile very useful. Now PAK 43 isn't as useful as Flak 88 was in vCOH (it doesn't rotate in all directions) but it's the only unit who should be allowed to have that huge range. Or, Elefant, Jagdiger and ISU should have just a slightly bigger range than others. Like +5, and at a last vet level (3 for ELE and 5 for JagdT) + another 5. That would maybe cool down things.
Hell, they could even replace Ele and JagdT with the 88. I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses that thing.

^G-wagen(which was also considered broken OP), jagdpanther, firefly.

So its not like coh1 haven't had super long range units, coh2 simply took it on a whole new level.

It´s exactly that whole new level. Also, the lack of counters.

The 88 was good but was very vulnerable to infantry and arty, which Allies had in abundance.
Acceptable long range units in CoH2 also have lots of weaknesses. Jackson e.g. with very low armor and HP, thus easily countered by quick moves with your own tanks and AT infantry (which Axis have!).

The other way around, there is no counter to a JT. Tanks will fail, again bc of superior Axis tank and AT inf protection and artillery is just unreliable.

I miss the good old days when it was not one long-range sniper-like unit vs the other but M10 vs Panthers and Tigers in close combat. I wish the Jackson was more like a cheap, high penetration, very fast, low health tank that could lead fast attacks.

^G-wagen(which was also considered broken OP), jagdpanther, firefly.

So its not like coh1 haven't had super long range units, coh2 simply took it on a whole new level.

Ahh, the g-wagen, pre nerf that unit was soo fun to play with, even after the nerf it was kinda cool to play with it. High stopping power and low penetration with high range and very low armor, with good micro it could be a good killer (after it was nerfed)...
firefly was a beast, jagdpanther was kinda meh.
Damn, if they fix the coh1 like it was under THQ i would left this game any day.

Low penetration??

It went through anything except a pershing like it was a paper. It 2-3 shot everything, it fired slowly, but two with rapid fire were dropping armor like sniper infantry.

It was a-move unit to follow grenblob.

Jagdtiger is the Oh Shit! unit for all your tanks. Yesterday I had 1 match (2v2) 2 soviets vs OKW and Ost. They had Tiger Ace and Jagdtiger. Man , without 2 IS2s and 2 ML-20 howis and extreme luck we wouldn't won that game. And, IS2 capture mode is actually good on Minsk Pocket.

Jagdtiger is the Oh Shit! unit for all your tanks. Yesterday I had 1 match (2v2) 2 soviets vs OKW and Ost. They had Tiger Ace and Jagdtiger. Man , without 2 IS2s and 2 ML-20 howis and extreme luck we wouldn't won that game. And, IS2 capture mode is actually good on Minsk Pocket.

What you describe there is a suboptimal commander layout for axis side. While Tiger Ace is stronk, none of the above mentioned commanders have the 2 click counter to your offmap artillerys. As such, u were able to win with extreme luck. Im guessing a few really good ml-20 hits on mr.jagdt.

Such is the real problem with Trolltiger, and why it is a bigger problem the more players are in the gamemode. One trade off should be the not spending fuel part untill lategame and the natural counter would be artillery. Since in 2v2s some people play for fun, not that many teams use the no-click anti armor and 3 click anti artillery combination. In 3v3 and 4v4 chances are very high, both are present.

I'd be interested what would happen, if on-map arty was stronk enough to survive any off-map strike(the hardware that is) and jagdtiger was nerfed into same range as ele and isu. Because a hell of a lot of games won by axis teams, are won after beeing behind for 30 minutes. Then slowly turn when allied attempts to get rid of the epicanter of slow-creep, the trolltiger, start. Only to be completly overwhelmed in 40 min mark (10 Minutes after the first, with ca 25 fuel per minute) when what was extremly costly/unssuccesfull to conter arrvies again/a second time. Im pretty sure we would have a whole different picture of whine/balance discussion going on then.

What you describe there is a suboptimal commander layout for axis side. While Tiger Ace is stronk, none of the above mentioned commanders have the 2 click counter to your offmap artillerys. As such, u were able to win with extreme luck. Im guessing a few really good ml-20 hits on mr.jagdt.

Such is the real problem with Trolltiger, and why it is a bigger problem the more players are in the gamemode. One trade off should be the not spending fuel part untill lategame and the natural counter would be artillery. Since in 2v2s some people play for fun, not that many teams use the no-click anti armor and 3 click anti artillery combination. In 3v3 and 4v4 chances are very high, both are present.

I'd be interested what would happen, if on-map arty was stronk enough to survive any off-map strike(the hardware that is) and jagdtiger was nerfed into same range as ele and isu. Because a hell of a lot of games won by axis teams, are won after beeing behind for 30 minutes. Then slowly turn when allied attempts to get rid of the epicanter of slow-creep, the trolltiger, start. Only to be completly overwhelmed in 40 min mark (10 Minutes after the first, with ca 25 fuel per minute) when what was extremly costly/unssuccesfull to conter arrvies again/a second time. Im pretty sure we would have a whole different picture of whine/balance discussion going on then.

Actually ML-20s were good for scaring off infanrty, but they got almost no good hits on armor. But IS-2s done most damage and destroyed Tiger Ace (which was trapped between 2 IS-2s ,even smoke didn't helm much) and JT

I've lost in two games my supported JT in a 2vs2. The key is to build a lot a tanks. They attacked my JT, coordinated with 5-6 tanks and infanrty. gg!

Might work in maps like rails and metal where there is room to maneuver. I´d like to know how do you amass and keep alive 5-6 t34s or shermans in one of those urban maps where there is paks and shrecks behind every corner and pathfinding screws you over with all those bottlenecks and corridors. It´s in these maps where jagdtigers ability to shoot through buildings really matters.

Might work in maps like rails and metal where there is room to maneuver. I´d like to know how do you amass and keep alive 5-6 t34s or shermans in one of those urban maps where there is paks and shrecks behind every corner and pathfinding screws you over with all those bottlenecks and corridors. It´s in these maps where jagdtigers ability to shoot through buildings really matters.

For those maps we have shock troops, comrade! I go drink some vodka)))

Relic should just take away its ability through buildings and obstacles. That way, players actually need to maneuver it instead of just sitting it behind a house and shooting at things.

Relic should just take away its ability through buildings and obstacles. That way, players actually need to maneuver it instead of just sitting it behind a house and shooting at things.

Have you ever tried to maneuver it? It's slow, has an incredibly slow acceleration and it gets stunned whenn a at gun shoots on it.

I find it funny that everytime a unit is considered OP on the allied side (ISU) axis needs a hardcounter. But when there is no need for real hardcounters to the OP axis one (Jagd). Instead allies should use combined arms.
Funny how that always seems to be the case..

It was said with the original Panther, the needed speed-nerf to the SU-85, the Elephant, the original Tiger Ace, aswell as tons of other stuff.

Im not saying I want an even more OP tank for allies to counter the Jagd, Im just saying that the argument that Jagd needs to be OP because ISU is OP is a stupid argument.

Low penetration??

It went through anything except a pershing like it was a paper. It 2-3 shot everything, it fired slowly, but two with rapid fire were dropping armor like sniper infantry.

It was a-move unit to follow grenblob.

Yes you needed rapid fire. the marder did the same thing faster with more penetration and didnt need to blow 100 ammo.

I find it funny that everytime a unit is considered OP on the allied side (ISU) axis needs a hardcounter. But when there is no need for real hardcounters to the OP axis one (Jagd). Instead allies should use combined arms.

Using a single at gun works against the either the elephant or the jagd. so yes the argument is valid.

Using a single at gun works against the either the elephant or the jagd. so yes the argument is valid.

Dont be silly. They claim is, that thing is a gamebreaker. Not an ISU breaker. 3v3 and up this thing breaks the game, a few maps aside. ISU is case for itself.

At-guns can kill it and elefant and jagdt can not conter them. But in a real game environment i have never ever seen an at-gun take out and elefant or jagdt. Ever. Really, no player that bad ever managed to get to 13cp.

Point is, where to stop? Problem is not it counter ISU, which would be all fine. Stupid balance (You build ISU, I build Elefant, we could have speared us the trouble), but fine. Point is it counters everything with weels. Everywhere. No flanking using obstacles to overcome the range possible. Mixed in a Team balance with crazy synergies. Like Recon plane and off-map 2 click counter to on-map arty.

Have you ever tried playing only infantry as your strategy? There is that thing called Stukka zu fuss and Obers. With a jagdtiger behind it and Ostwind/P4/Stugg/tiger guarding the shit out of it. The game is meant to evolve into mixed forces with everything somehow necessary to cover the spectrum. The argument is as false as it can get, since it exactly denies using combined arms.

Has anyone actually seen a elephant or Jagdtiger get taken out by an AT gun? I've seen that argument thrown around before and it's complete bullshit.

Both those tanks have heavy frontal armor that the guns have trouble penning and despite their low speed, they still outrun AT guns. Not to mention that they outrange them considerably and have no reason to enter the range.

They aren't counters just deterrants, that will usually cause a stalemate with the AT gun getting taken out by call-ins, artillery, or infantry since armor can no longer support.

Please stop using this terrible argument.

Has anyone actually seen a elephant or Jagdtiger get taken out by an AT gun? I've seen that argument thrown around before and it's complete bullshit.

Both those tanks have heavy frontal armor that the guns have trouble penning and despite their low speed, they still outrun AT guns. Not to mention that they outrange them considerably and have no reason to enter the range.

They aren't counters just deterrants, that will usually cause a stalemate with the AT gun getting taken out by call-ins, artillery, or infantry since armor can no longer support.

Please stop using this terrible argument.

3 AT guns, su 85, and shocks for support

3 AT guns, su 85, and shocks for support

no offence, but that sounds like you pulled that right from...

/You know what...

if you have 2 vet2/3 su85 you can take on a jt frontally if you are lucky getting a crew shock in one of the first shots