Jackson a discussion and compariosn

It needs a bit more range, a bit more speed, or a bit more armor, but probably not any combination of those three.

Firefly in CoH1 had superior range so it was truly a sniper unit. Jackson feels like the Diet Coke version of the Firefly. Less range, but just about equal speed and armor.

If they're going to keep the range as it is such that you have to babysit it to the extreme to get in range to do damage and take none, then it either needs faster acceleration/top speed to GTFO when Panthers come charging or a bit more armor to absorb the AT fire resulting from minor mistakes that are sure to result sometimes from pathing.

It is a strong unit, but they never feel truly intimidating or like they hard counter they should feel like. It feels like you're praying to god they don't trip over the invisible line of their max range and wind up getting crippled by incoming AT fire.

How about improving penetration for the M36. I've seen 3 shells bounced off my tiger in a row at mid range. That seems pretty fake since the 90mm gun was the only gun that can really penetrate the german Panther and Tiger at long distance.

Welcome to RNG

Welcome to RNG

It's not actually that much RNG, the M36 has a 47% chance to bounce off a Tiger Tank with a frontal hit at long range. 3 bounces are nearly as likely as 3 penetrations. The Jackson needs to use the HVAP ability if it wants to penetrate anything bigger than a Panzer IV reliably, and it can only get those with Veterancy.

M36 is a powerful tank but not good enough to cut it out in the late game.

While it has one of the longest ranges in the game the OP has a good point it lacks the mobility the tank needs to really be effective. Considering a Puma with aimed shot can win the tank needs either more mobility or better cannon ability because right now it is more of a glass rifle. With good starting penetration and great with vet one the problem is trading with Axis armor. You simply cannot trade at all which puts the tank in a difficult spot considering it does not do superb damage while it has only slightly above average mobility.

Because it is made of glass you are almost better off getting another anti tank gun and putting the fuel into another vehicle (probably the great M8) because with the vet one ability you preform very similarly.

OP does a pretty good job statistically showing the mediocre performance of the Jackson and I would like to point out some situation / game wise issues:

Jackson has almost as worse AI capabilities. Due to it facing superior armor, anti tank weapons, and veterancy it is very obvious why upper level players would rather just get another Sherman which can be used in a large amount of situations

Jackson has only slightly more range than dedicated AT of axis forcing it to trade in many situations which it does not want to
(examples are jagdP4, StuG, Pak

Jackson is one shot by a teller. Hard to win late game if a teller wipes out your most expensive piece of equipment on the USF

Many maps favor close engagements with tanks such as the town area of semosky meaning the Jackson has to trade

Quite frankly its hard to flank with a glass rifle. You might find a great situation where you can use your mobility and range to advantage with a flank but if anything sneezes in your direction it has to pull out. not to mention you cannot flank if Pshrecks are near by

Its utterly one dimensional. Quite simply because USF late game scales so poorly other than with M1919s it is hard to deal with both superior infantry and superior tanks without another Sherman. You could get your second tank to be a jackson, but your other Sherman cannot be everywhere with its HE rounds so its better to just get another Sherman.

Last point: its really expensive for a glass rifle. Pretty much all I have to say on this matter

It's not actually that much RNG, the M36 has a 47% chance to bounce off a Tiger Tank with a frontal hit at long range. 3 bounces are nearly as likely as 3 penetrations. The Jackson needs to use the HVAP ability if it wants to penetrate anything bigger than a Panzer IV reliably, and it can only get those with Veterancy.

Its still RNG. The guy was stating for some reason his tank did not penetrate more. I stated it was RNG lol

Its still RNG. The guy was stating for some reason his tank did not penetrate more. I stated it was RNG lol

The term "RNG" is generally the answer for when something possible but unlikely happens that turns the tide in one person's favour. For a personal example: A T-34/76 misses or bounces every single shot on a captured T-34/76 that was one hit from death, while the captured T-34 penetrated and hit every shot on mine, resulting in a very unlikely victory for the severely crippled enemy tank. Contrarily, what steel described was a normal occurrence, and how it was designed to happen.

The term "RNG" is generally the answer for when something possible but unlikely happens that turns the tide in one person's favour. For a personal example: A T-34/76 misses or bounces every single shot on a captured T-34/76 that was one hit from death, while the captured T-34 penetrated and hit every shot on mine, resulting in a very unlikely victory for the severely crippled enemy tank. Contrarily, what steel described was a normal occurrence, and how it was designed to happen.

Brah look at the message I said that to, It is not an extreme case but RNG is the factor in his complaint

Technically yes, but that's not how "RNG" is used in a community sense. This is less "RNG" and more "Working as intended".

The biggest issue i have is it is so easy to lose a jackson due to the shit pathfinding it has. I swear the driver is a retard lol. It makes it so hard to duck in and out on a target when your around any objects. I do feel like it could do with a little more acceliration

Do you think HVAP being vet 0 and flanking speed being vet 1 as the only change would break the game?

Nope, because the jackson is still dead simple to kill (a couple of shreks will do it) and has zero AI.

By contrast consider the Elefant and Jagdtiger, who whilst being dedicated AT tanks like the Jackson, also have some of the best armour in the game (especially considering how poor allied infantry AT is), so I think your suggestion is fair Mutes.

Tbh, the jackson is a very good tank destroyer when microed properly and plus it has a turret and plus it comes in a tier that also has M4 shermans and scotts, making it good combined arms.

Compared to the su-85, which has less speed, no turret, less damage and comes in a tier that is completely inflexible.

The thing that really needs some fixing, is wehrmacht and soviet T4, both are pretty bad.

Yeah it really needs more penetration. Considering how ridiculously difficult it is to babysit it, it's not rewarding enough in the hands of a good player. The shells just bounce off the front armour of a Tiger or even a Panther way too frequently.

It is RNG yes, but my point was the penetration needs a serious buff.

It's not actually that much RNG, the M36 has a 47% chance to bounce off a Tiger Tank with a frontal hit at long range. 3 bounces are nearly as likely as 3 penetrations. The Jackson needs to use the HVAP ability if it wants to penetrate anything bigger than a Panzer IV reliably, and it can only get those with Veterancy.

Which means its a coin toss, which means its RNG duuh.

In before CieZ comes and reinsures us that the Jackson is in fact god tier OP lol :-)

First of all Jackson is not M10.
Yeah, they are fragile, but they have great range and turret instead. And they are dangerous as hell. It kills STUG in 2 shots and Two of them can kill the Tiger in no time.

If you want better durability, then something else must be nerfed, because it might be overpowered then...

First of all Jackson is not M10.
Yeah, they are fragile, but they have great range and turret instead. And they are dangerous as hell. It kills STUG in 2 shots and Two of them can kill the Tiger in no time.

If you want better durability, then something else must be nerfed, because it might be overpowered then...

Your right...

It had twice the armor of an M10 a much bigger gun and yet only went 2MPHs slower. If armor =s durability in game then it should have more HPs like double by your logic.

But I dont think anyone is asking for that.

The more I think about it the more I think even making it as fast as the M10 wouldnt screw over the M10 since the M10 has vet around mobility and LOL SURPRISE SURPRISE the Jackson doesnt. Its gets more site range. Making it once again a defensive tool.

If they dont want it to have more Speed then give it 640 HPs.

How about improving penetration for the M36. I've seen 3 shells bounced off my tiger in a row at mid range. That seems pretty fake since the 90mm gun was the only gun that can really penetrate the german Panther and Tiger at long distance.

Personally I could care less about a buff to its gun. What good is a gun on a dead TD? Its too easily killed. If it were perhaps more forgiving it would be easier to vet and thus get better penetration on its own.

Personally I could care less about a buff to its gun. What good is a gun on a dead TD? Its too easily killed. If it were perhaps more forgiving it would be easier to vet and thus get better penetration on its own.

Still isn't it the reason people rush the M36 into enemy tanks is to get maximum penetration power? Buffing penetration would make it so that people will start attacking from long range right? The penetration for the M#6 should be 200/180/160 short-long. At long range it can even bounce off a panzer IV.... It should penetrate all those mediums except panther perfectly.