Am i the only one that sees this unit overperforming too much? not only it has longer firing range than other common units like T34 but also has insta smoke ability and this "jammed turret" vet 1 ability which is win button, also it has super reload time, had game where with one Puma I killed Shermans with E.Z.
Any opinions? and pls dont tell me it's balanced cuz it costs moar than ostheer Puma
OKW Puma
21 Aug 2014, 07:52 AM
#1
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
21 Aug 2014, 08:05 AM
#2
Posts: 4
I agree with u, great spot range plus great firing range, good speed, insta jamming, smoke defense. I Think it has too much survability skills, and...well, he penetrates shermans with almost any shot, and prices are really differents.
With 2 puma u can scare any allied tank, and get out the fight really fast.
Even trowing some AT nades is really hard
With 2 puma u can scare any allied tank, and get out the fight really fast.
Even trowing some AT nades is really hard
21 Aug 2014, 08:08 AM
#3
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
It's stupidly effective against pretty much every single allied non-doctrinal vehicle except the M8A1, and that's purely because the M8A1 has smoke of its own while outranging the Puma.
I do think it should get nerfed in some way, because it's just way too easy to keep alive the way it is now, 400hp (more than a t70/stuart), 7.2 speed with an insane 4.5 acceleration (nothing except Kubel comes anywhere near this ingame), 50 range with extremely good penetration chances even at max range against all non-doctrinals, actually fairly good anti-inf (due to having an overly good coaxial MG+fast firing gun), and the best kind of vehicle smoke. What you want to nerf about it is up to what you think the unit should actually be weak against, personally I'd like to see the smoke get removed (atleast until higher vet) so that infantry AT can actually punish an overextended puma instead of it just popping smoke and escaping with its insane speed.
I do think it should get nerfed in some way, because it's just way too easy to keep alive the way it is now, 400hp (more than a t70/stuart), 7.2 speed with an insane 4.5 acceleration (nothing except Kubel comes anywhere near this ingame), 50 range with extremely good penetration chances even at max range against all non-doctrinals, actually fairly good anti-inf (due to having an overly good coaxial MG+fast firing gun), and the best kind of vehicle smoke. What you want to nerf about it is up to what you think the unit should actually be weak against, personally I'd like to see the smoke get removed (atleast until higher vet) so that infantry AT can actually punish an overextended puma instead of it just popping smoke and escaping with its insane speed.
21 Aug 2014, 08:14 AM
#4
Posts: 747
Making smoke a vet ability seems to be te best solution imo.
21 Aug 2014, 08:23 AM
#5
Posts: 752
Id prefer a damage profile nerf, to nerfing its survival, seeing as how crucial vehicle retention is for OKW with their fuel income handicap.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
21 Aug 2014, 08:27 AM
#6
Posts: 656
I would like to see it perform more along the lines of a light vehicle hunter myself. Reduce the penetration of the main gun by 20-40 at all ranges and drop the health to 320 like most light tanks. It would still be effective vs everything up to a Stuart thanks to superior range/gun damage/penetration/mobility but would struggle vs true medium tanks.
21 Aug 2014, 08:37 AM
#7
Posts: 273
I AGREE... Since it is a light vehicle, all anti vehicle weapons (tanks or guns) misses it due to its speed and smaller body. PLUS it has smoke ability to espace from the range of AT units PLUS it has vet1 ability against vehicles.
Isnt it tooooooo much to give him a chance to survive?
Suggestion; Remove the smoke ability. It should have chance only with its speed and small body which is fair compared to other light vehicles.. (also some USF light vehicles need to be tweaked)
Isnt it tooooooo much to give him a chance to survive?
Suggestion; Remove the smoke ability. It should have chance only with its speed and small body which is fair compared to other light vehicles.. (also some USF light vehicles need to be tweaked)
21 Aug 2014, 08:37 AM
#8
Posts: 17
When I play OKW, I always go for a PUMA as soon as possible since it can deal with Infantry and Vehicles quite well in the early/mid game, before one can bring out a real Medium Tank.
So far it was very effective and reliable. I also agree when palying against it, I have the same impression as Barton sometimes in terms of overperfroming for its costs.
So far it was very effective and reliable. I also agree when palying against it, I have the same impression as Barton sometimes in terms of overperfroming for its costs.
21 Aug 2014, 08:58 AM
#9
Posts: 119
OKW has nothing else, just puma, while get Panther. The med tanks spam hurt enough OKW with current puma too, i dont want try, what can i do vs t34/Sherman spam, with a 320hp/without smoke Puma...
21 Aug 2014, 09:00 AM
#10
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
OKW has nothing else, just puma, while get Panther. The med tanks spam hurt enough OKW with current puma too, i dont want try, what can i do vs t34/Sherman spam, with a 320hp/without smoke Puma...
micro better maybe? As it's light vehicle it deal perfectly vs almost any tanks in game, it has only hard times when some IS-2 with great armour hits the field but still it's outranging it and moves a lot faster
21 Aug 2014, 09:01 AM
#11
Posts: 273
volks with srecks and shreck werfer quite good at killing t34s.
21 Aug 2014, 09:03 AM
#12
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I don't agree, it's in line with the OkW high risk / high reward design.
It's an AT unit and serves as a replacements for paks and early accessible medium tanks.
Taking the fuel penalty into account it moves around the price of a t34 (without taking teaching into account).
You also seem to forget that in order to shine you need to heavily Micro it and honestly maybe less than 1 % of the players have the Micro to outplay an easy8.
You can chase it through the smoke with a tank and usually managed to hit the killing shot.
The triple smoke barrage in the past was op but got nerfed, since that it's OK in my opinion.
Imagine a situation where you lost early game and your opponent rolls a kv 8 out, the puma would be the only reliable chance in that situation.
It's an AT unit and serves as a replacements for paks and early accessible medium tanks.
Taking the fuel penalty into account it moves around the price of a t34 (without taking teaching into account).
You also seem to forget that in order to shine you need to heavily Micro it and honestly maybe less than 1 % of the players have the Micro to outplay an easy8.
You can chase it through the smoke with a tank and usually managed to hit the killing shot.
The triple smoke barrage in the past was op but got nerfed, since that it's OK in my opinion.
Imagine a situation where you lost early game and your opponent rolls a kv 8 out, the puma would be the only reliable chance in that situation.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
21 Aug 2014, 09:04 AM
#13
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
I've barely made Pumas and I'm apparently rank 6. I think you can do something to tanks even without them.
Except the Puma is more like high reward, low risk right now. It's harder to kill than T34s, Shermans, etc by a huge margin. And yes, no doubt arguing as an OKW player you wouldn't want to take tech costs into account what with OKW barely having any compared to soviets and Ostheer.
Heavy micro being A-move forward with puma, reverse, a move forward again 4 seconds later?
How do you chase a vehicle that accelerates to max speed in one second from standstill and has the highest max speed (shared with a few other, much lighter vehicles) in the game?
I don't agree, it's in line with the OkW high risk / high reward design.
It's an AT unit and serves as a replacements for paks and early accessible medium tanks.
Taking the fuel penalty into account it moves around the price of a t34 (without taking teaching into account).
You also seem to forget that in order to shine you need to heavily Micro it and honestly maybe less than 1 % of the players have the Micro to outplay an easy8.
You can chase it through the smoke with a tank and usually managed to hit the killing shot.
Except the Puma is more like high reward, low risk right now. It's harder to kill than T34s, Shermans, etc by a huge margin. And yes, no doubt arguing as an OKW player you wouldn't want to take tech costs into account what with OKW barely having any compared to soviets and Ostheer.
Heavy micro being A-move forward with puma, reverse, a move forward again 4 seconds later?
How do you chase a vehicle that accelerates to max speed in one second from standstill and has the highest max speed (shared with a few other, much lighter vehicles) in the game?
21 Aug 2014, 09:06 AM
#14
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
But what would be OKW's tank option then? Okw has nothing serious to deal with allied medium armor by the time it arrives on the battlefield, except Puma. Nerfing it will create a gap that would be covered by what? I don't feel nerfing Puma is a good idea. If you think it's overperforming I would prefer to be removed and replaced with a PZIV J - except doctrinal (and very rare call-in) OKW has NO medium tank whatsoever.
Or you can nerf Puma's damage but you need then to increase its survivability somehow.
Or you can nerf Puma's damage but you need then to increase its survivability somehow.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
21 Aug 2014, 09:09 AM
#15
Posts: 1702
But what would be OKW's tank option then? Okw has nothing serious to deal with allied medium armor by the time it arrives on the battlefield, except Puma. Nerfing it will create a gap that would be covered by what? I don't feel nerfing Puma is a good idea. If you think it's overperforming I would prefer to be removed and replaced with a PZIV J - except doctrinal (and very rare call-in) OKW has NO medium tank whatsoever.
Or you can nerf Puma's damage but you need then to increase its survivability somehow.
Jagpanzer, and nerfing the puma would not make it useless, however easier to kill.
21 Aug 2014, 09:11 AM
#16
Posts: 119
Volks with Schreck most of time make VETERANCY for my T34, really, and im not a pro player...
21 Aug 2014, 09:11 AM
#17
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Jagpanzer, and nerfing the puma would not make it useless, however easier to kill.
If I would nerf T34/76 saying you will still have your su-85 option, would this be ok for you?
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
21 Aug 2014, 09:14 AM
#18
Posts: 656
But what would be OKW's tank option then? Okw has nothing serious to deal with allied medium armor by the time it arrives on the battlefield, except Puma. Nerfing it will create a gap that would be covered by what? I don't feel nerfing Puma is a good idea. If you think it's overperforming I would prefer to be removed and replaced with a PZIV J - except doctrinal (and very rare call-in) OKW has NO medium tank whatsoever.
Or you can nerf Puma's damage but you need then to increase its survivability somehow.
The Jagpanzer4 is a tank that exists. The JP4 does incredible work vs medium tanks and thanks to an abundance of munitions for shrecks and mines it is extremely difficult to properly flank.
21 Aug 2014, 09:16 AM
#19
Posts: 1702
If I would nerf T34/76 saying you will still have your su-85 option, would this be ok for you?
Nerfing the puma would not make it useless.
Also, you can get all tiers, and it's actually a good idea to get all tiers as OKW, unlike for the soviets.
21 Aug 2014, 09:20 AM
#20
Posts: 400
Making smoke a vet ability seems to be te best solution imo.
I agree.
Also, i think Puma could very well stand toe to toe with a Sherman, let's compare the costs:
Sherman 340 mp / 110 fu
Puma 320 mp / 105 fu (70 + 50%, OKW fuel income reduction).
Not that big of a difference, the result of such a fight should be determined by microgestion quality of the players involved. The two units are very different in their role and design, so it could very well be 50/50. Do you feel you destroy shermans more than 50% of the time Barton ?
(i used the numbers of the USF forces guide, i don't own the faction, thus can't check the prices of the sherman ingame).
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