How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?

2 flanking tanks can take care of it, and you never have to worry about Button when up against it (unless in a team game, but that's cheese game mode for you) so you can afford to be aggressive; even if you lose 2 P4s destroying it, you still come out on top resource wise.

To be true, there's a commander with ISU & guards.

ISU-152 is astonishingly good, but is much more vulnerable than all others heavy tanks. Its slow, doesn't have turret and its armor is not good.
You don't even need Tigers to destroy it, even a good flanking puma can destroy it.

I think that ISU-152 OPness depends more of the map that you're playing than the unit itself. But well, that happens with Elefant too and elefant is much harder to be countered. (Yes, i know that elefant only damages tanks, but seriously you need something besides grens+lmg to rape soviet infantry?)

Fixed for you.

Yes, fighting ISU is annoying, no, its not OP, I've fought quite a few as both okw and wehr, no, they are not as dangerous as you try to make them seen if you were not roflstomped in early game.

2 Pumas or panzers with infantry push and they are scrap metal. Hell, a pair of normal PaK40 can scare them away.

L2P. Seriously, its nothing more.

Well, if he went for ISU, that means he invested alot of fuel in it, and that means he didn't build alot(if any) tanks, then if he didnt hade any armor he needed atleast 2-3 AT, and if even one AT is with ISU there u can forget on puma's or P4s... Infantry push? 2-3 maxims wont have any problem... Thats the case without other armor, infantry or air/indirect support. ISU isn't insanely OP, but it is a unit that can change the match easly if used with little micro, something that u can't do with Ferdi or Jagdtiger. And that is annoying. OKW kinda have proper hard counter, ostheer not so much, because with this RNG it is very very easy that ISU beat ferdi in a fair match. So, ferdi needs buff or ISU nerf. IMHO

ISU isn't insanely OP, but it is a unit that can change the match easly if used with little micro, something that u can't do with Ferdi or Jagdtiger.

Yes, you can.

As I said before is very map dependant, but an Elefant or Jadgtiger can be as gamechanging than an ISU.

It is really an eyecandy how much bullshit you can read in a a single thread.

The ISU is OP. It deals so much damage against infantry, wipe out AT-guns, medium tanks will be stunned and will receive serious damage and that is plain bullshit.

Elefant and Jagdtiger only deal damage against tanks. So ISU should only do damage against infantry (like Brummbär - else with 150mm it should also be devastating) or as AT (maybe switch ammonition possible with concrete rounds and HE shells?) but with a high cooldown. Also possibility would be to nerf the range so it has to come close. In fact it is better than Brummbär and also Sturmtiger (that is also slow and has high reload). Also it can reload on the move.

On top of that, the russian faction design is overall nuts and so are the doctrines / commanders.

One thing is e.g. that you have nearly in all doctrines the shock troopers. On top of that you always get artillery or nice tanks (T34/85) or ISU152 or IS-2 bunched up with nice Sturmovik offmap call ins.

It is plain bullshit design like Rifle-Company on US imho. Rifle Company is a good thing, but instead of the Easy Eight (which should be in armor doc imho) they should have 105mm Shermans or Wolverines (bad tank hunters to support rifles)

You always get such well rounded commaners / doctrines while e.g. Luftwaffen-Doc only got anti infantry measures (MG34, Fallschirmjäger, StuKa to suppress). To be on par with those well rounded doctrines, the Luftwaffe should have a Panzer IV battle group call in from the Elitepanzer Doc. But it haven't got it.

Shock Troopers also put assault grens to shame.

Imho ISU152 should be nerfed with ammo switch / range or other stuff. Also you see it so often...well this speaks for itself that the commanders with ISU are OP and therefore been picked regularly instead of other ones even if you have a shitload of other commanders.

Also it is bullshit that i have no decent counters against it, but doctrinal units like Elefant or Jagdtiger.

I naturally regret that you are upset, but you have to accept that simply because you do not like the power of the ISU, is no reason to react in this fashion, to the simple observation that you must deal with it.. Because deal with it, Axis players must, unless and until another patch changes its powers. Put simplistically, there is the Elefant.....and then the longer question of why you allowed the ISU to be built in the first place....

It is high time, I think, to keep demanding replays from objectors to any unit from any faction, so that these discussions cease to take place in a vacuum of theory.

Why should I be upset? I do not like OP stuff thats all.
"why you allowed the ISU to be built in the first place...." - maybe because on some maps maxim + zis spam + shocks are way too much for axis to handle so there is going to be ISU (I play mostly 2vs2, 1vs1 is not fun for me). BTW if I allow my opponent to build ISU should I just loose the match?

@Katitof: your L2P advices.. well keep them for somebody else. I play this game long enough to know how flank etc.. but since ISU can get my PIV to almost half health in just one shot, or decimate whole squads even on vet 5 its not that simple. Maybe you faced opponent which didnt support its ISU then it can be easy but with some AT behind + maxim or guards, yeah good luck flanking and not each map good for flanking.

And I quote VonIvan

"Fix ISU 1-shotting(should be more of an anti-tank type of vehicle, though still effect infantry(increasing scatter would be best like with the IS-2)"

http://www.coh2.org/topic/22080/soviet-cheese/page/7#post_id201119

If there's anylne here better than Vonivan, let him speak. Otherwise, just stop saying "it's fine"

Seriously, at this point, I'd like to see replays from the people who advocate leaving the ISU as is. Specifically, I'd like to see replays of them dealing with a moderately competently utilised ISU. The fact is that in this patch, the ISU is the comeback-tool par excellence and in fact gamebreaking for the simple and often stated fact that not only can it wipe squads at obscene ranges but that it has only one actual counter which is by no means truly reliable.

How about we fix call ins first and worry about ISU latter?
I have this feeling it won't be such an issue anymore.

Just did some fast research on this subject. Watched FaHu play as Soviets, as soon as I joined his stream his ISU came on the field. It fired about 10 times before it wiped anything (which was an already injured squad).

ISU is fine. I'll agree back in the day it DID indiscriminately wipe squads with every shot, but it's much more manageable now. The fact that it has great AI and solid AT isn't a problem, considering it's weaknesses. And at least it doesn't have 100 range anymore.

Just did some fast research on this subject. Watched FaHu play as Soviets, as soon as I joined his stream his ISU came on the field. It fired about 10 times before it wiped anything (which was an already injured squad).

ISU is fine. I'll agree back in the day it DID indiscriminately wipe squads with every shot, but it's much more manageable now. The fact that it has great AI and solid AT isn't a problem, considering it's weaknesses. And at least it doesn't have 100 range anymore.

It wiped one AT-Gun on max range, one püppchen and 4 models of an Volk squad with schreck....just btw

I dont think ISU needs further nerfs - what actually makes the ISU so strong is the shitty infantry pathing. Units are too clumped up on 4 man squads and therefor get wiped so easily.

So the ISU is only countered by 2 units in the game (Elefant and Jagdtiger), and one of them costs a lot more and is only good vs other tanks.

How do you counter ISU without those 2 units? Lets presume the Soviet player isn't an idiot and has either guards or AT guns set up to deny flanking.

I don't want to see the ISU nerfed, I'd rather see counters become more viable. If it does get nerfed, then I hope it's just its AT ability. I'd like to see it shock tanks more, but do less damage and still be lethal to infantry.

*Use PaK40s to counter ISU* guys, please, stop with the jokes and lets talk seriously, K

Yes, you can.

As I said before is very map dependant, but an Elefant or Jadgtiger can be as gamechanging than an ISU.

They cant, elefant is bad even against armor when they reduced range on that two vehicle... Funny things is u dont even need to try to counter jagdtiger, start spammmin infantry and there goes to waste 800 manpower and 290 fuel for okw... Saw it couple of times. Jagd killed two tanks then for the rest of the match he stopped producing armor, valid tactic.... Just, that wont work for ISU cuz it is hard counter for 99% stuff that axis can produce...

start spammmin infantry and there goes to waste 800 manpower and 290 fuel for okw... Saw it couple of times. Jagd killed two tanks then for the rest of the match he stopped producing armor, valid tactic.... Just, that wont work for ISU cuz it is hard counter for 99% stuff that axis can produce...

As if OKW has any problem dealing with infantry... Obers can chew anything throwing at them.

sherman bulldozers can do that shit 2. just had a 2v2 with 3 or 4 one shot wipes on my volks. can be frustrating, but as stated above it can be countered, but its not easy. at the moment it is a reliable anti blob weapon with good AT potential, it is always a better choice over t34/85 call in or IS2....

How about we rephrase the question to "how long before the KV-2 is a usable unit in this game?"

*Use PaK40s to counter ISU* guys, please, stop with the jokes and lets talk seriously, K

but you can scare it off. Getting a couple of potshots with some schrecks and at guns/armor will make ISU back off. ISU does not have very strong armor. I think it can get killed by 2-3 shots of Kingtiger/Jagdtiger

Either give back elefant or nerf ISU out of the game.