Button
12 Aug 2014, 12:04 PM
#21
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Yes, button is super OP. Remove it so that germans can lolblitz/smoke out of trouble every time.
12 Aug 2014, 12:28 PM
#22
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
jesus christ, you really will bitch about anything and everything won't you?
what's next, zis gun tracking? t70 recon mode?
Actually, both of them already had nerf thread.
Complaining about stuff like this only proves how well the game is actually balanced if people can't even complain about something valid.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Aug 2014, 12:36 PM
#23
1 
Posts: 2885
Actually the button has pretty small range and lasts only 10 seconds, it's less than bombing strike wait time and it's exactly the time needed for ISU to reload only 1 round. Apart from that guards have to stay in place while buttoning and shooting all their valuable weapons at selected tank, which means that even ass grens or mg grens can kill the whole squad while the ability is used (i belive that even forced movement like a vehicle driving through them is able to cancel it, but i'm not sure). And of course the smoke can make it a munition sucker, especially when you use it combined with bombing strike.
After all the ability is mostly usefull when you have 2 guards buttoning one vehicle one after another and some proper at to deal with the tank (2 t-34s is enough) but then it is a great but costly ability at 150 munis for dps and another 80 for the use, thats almost 3 mines! And of course it needs some micro, an enemy that attacks with only one, unsupported tank and won't run away with it seeing 2 dp guard squads...
After all the ability is mostly usefull when you have 2 guards buttoning one vehicle one after another and some proper at to deal with the tank (2 t-34s is enough) but then it is a great but costly ability at 150 munis for dps and another 80 for the use, thats almost 3 mines! And of course it needs some micro, an enemy that attacks with only one, unsupported tank and won't run away with it seeing 2 dp guard squads...
12 Aug 2014, 12:48 PM
#24
Posts: 44
lasts only 10 seconds
In RTS games are won or lost in "only 10 seconds"
12 Aug 2014, 12:56 PM
#25
1 Posts: 2885
Ok I agree but this is punishing only to one of your tanks, you dont have to follow one tiger or one KT strat, and actually nobody can call attacking with just one tank a flanking manouver. In my opinion it's just a good ability against a heavy tank meta. Build some p4s or stugs to support your tiger and watch for guards while giving orders to your best, flag one, should be enough, you can of course also use one of smoke commanders.
12 Aug 2014, 12:56 PM
#26
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I don't think the OP is suggesting that Relic remove button and hope for the best. I think this is a discussion about whether people like the ability and what would they do if they could remove it.
I don't like button. It feels unfair when I use it and it is extremely annoying when it gets used on me. I don't know what I would change it to yet but I would not mind seeing it go.
I don't like button. It feels unfair when I use it and it is extremely annoying when it gets used on me. I don't know what I would change it to yet but I would not mind seeing it go.
12 Aug 2014, 13:13 PM
#27
2 Posts: 2181
I don't think the OP is suggesting that Relic remove button and hope for the best. I think this is a discussion about whether people like the ability and what would they do if they could remove it.
I don't like button. It feels unfair when I use it and it is extremely annoying when it gets used on me. I don't know what I would change it to yet but I would not mind seeing it go.
I feel the same
12 Aug 2014, 13:15 PM
#28
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
In RTS games are won or lost in "only 10 seconds"
This is not spamcraft.
Also buttoning guards can be easily naded or driven over by 2nd vehicle.
That is, if you don't play "lolgren into tiger spam" strat.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Aug 2014, 13:29 PM
#29
Posts: 987
Why is everyone so angry? Is bringing topics up for discussion so terrible? Arclyte, why are you so angry? Chto s toboi, malenkii?
Aerohank - I'm not saying it's "super OP". Could you show me anywhere where I say that?
I'm saying it's partof the reason that sniper strats and ISU are overpowered and hard to punish.
What function does it serve? To stop the German light vehicle / tank spam nobody is seeing in 1v1 / 2v2?
When there is an ISU, Axis needs to be able to flank, correct? When there are snipers - attack with light vehicles, right? No. Because guards essentially negate that option. The button ability is part of the reason for the Face-Face tank slugfest meta. Flanking is punished with button. I think that's wrong.
Soviets wouldn't suffer early game if it was removed. There would be a lot less late-game cheese if it was taken out. I don't see a real downside other than soviets losing an easy vehicle-wipe ability.
Aerohank - I'm not saying it's "super OP". Could you show me anywhere where I say that?
I'm saying it's partof the reason that sniper strats and ISU are overpowered and hard to punish.
What function does it serve? To stop the German light vehicle / tank spam nobody is seeing in 1v1 / 2v2?
When there is an ISU, Axis needs to be able to flank, correct? When there are snipers - attack with light vehicles, right? No. Because guards essentially negate that option. The button ability is part of the reason for the Face-Face tank slugfest meta. Flanking is punished with button. I think that's wrong.
Soviets wouldn't suffer early game if it was removed. There would be a lot less late-game cheese if it was taken out. I don't see a real downside other than soviets losing an easy vehicle-wipe ability.
Let's keep it constructive
12 Aug 2014, 14:06 PM
#30
Posts: 304
Can you use Mortar smoke or smoke pots etc to escape as well? I imagine you can, but nobody mentioned it. Mortar smoke is non-doctrinal too if you need a guaranteed counter measure.
I've never had a problem with this ability. It only really catches you if you attack with just one tank and all it does it buy time to get harder AT into position. With Soviets having less effective AT in general, I think this is a good example of combined arms. Button with Guards to allow the ZiS to squeeze off one more round, or to give your T34 the needed edge.
I've never had a problem with this ability. It only really catches you if you attack with just one tank and all it does it buy time to get harder AT into position. With Soviets having less effective AT in general, I think this is a good example of combined arms. Button with Guards to allow the ZiS to squeeze off one more round, or to give your T34 the needed edge.
12 Aug 2014, 14:09 PM
#31
Posts: 760
Really? Are you serious? Button? You have the audacity to complain about button? When German tanks have blitz and Panzer tactician? This thread is a joke.
12 Aug 2014, 14:13 PM
#32
Posts: 1122
Panzer tactician.
Snipers may be a problem, but button perfectly fine.
Snipers may be a problem, but button perfectly fine.
12 Aug 2014, 14:13 PM
#33
Posts: 987
Audacity? Audacity!? Yes, how dare I make a suggestion on a public forum!
Relax there buddy, I'm only suggesting it. Feel free to counter-suggest things like "If this change was made, we ought also to change Blitz/Panzer tactician"
Geez, don't get your goddamn panties in a twist over a suggestion. So mad, so sad :/
Relax there buddy, I'm only suggesting it. Feel free to counter-suggest things like "If this change was made, we ought also to change Blitz/Panzer tactician"
Geez, don't get your goddamn panties in a twist over a suggestion. So mad, so sad :/
Let's keep it constructive
12 Aug 2014, 14:20 PM
#34
Posts: 39
Button's fine as it is; it costs 75 muni for dps and 40 munis to activate. Smoke and panzer tactician completely negate it. It's only good if your guards are close to a vehicle, if you do it at max range the unit its buttoning will likely go past the ability's range and break it. PTRs do questionable damage and have very bad aim time when not in a scout car, so most of the time you need another unit to dish out damage if you're fighting anything heavier than a 222 or halftrack.
12 Aug 2014, 14:30 PM
#35
Posts: 647
fail thread, nerf conscripts next.
12 Aug 2014, 14:35 PM
#36
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Why is everyone so angry?
Aerohank - I'm not saying it's "super OP". Could you show me anywhere where I say that?
I'm saying it's partof the reason that sniper strats and ISU are overpowered and hard to punish.
What function does it serve? To stop the German light vehicle / tank spam nobody is seeing in 1v1 / 2v2?
When there is an ISU, Axis needs to be able to flank, correct? When there are snipers - attack with light vehicles, right? No. Because guards essentially negate that option. The button ability is part of the reason for the Face-Face tank slugfest meta. Flanking is punished with button. I think that's wrong.
Soviets wouldn't suffer early game if it was removed. There would be a lot less late-game cheese if it was taken out. I don't see a real downside other than soviets losing an easy vehicle-wipe ability.
I know you are not saying it is OP. I am saying it.
Lategame Soviets should lose. Button has to go. Lategame cheese should be something that only axis can do with Smoke, Blitz, Überinfantry, Kingtigers and Jagdtigers.
12 Aug 2014, 14:36 PM
#37
Posts: 156
Button seems fine to me since using it is the only way my first T-34 can take out a Panzer 4. You pretty much have to walk into a trap to get wrecked by button so I don't see a problem. If you get buttoned in your territory chances are your unit will survive. When defending snipers I can see how it would get frustrating but it is not like soviets have a lot of other options. OKW ruined con spam and I think machine guns are stupid so... snipers, guards, and penals are all I have left in this world.
Plus doing this is muni heavy so if they are buttoning everywhere you don't have to worry about mines and so on.
Plus doing this is muni heavy so if they are buttoning everywhere you don't have to worry about mines and so on.
12 Aug 2014, 14:39 PM
#38
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Hate to jump into a thread that has gone completely off the rails, but I want to see the community grow up a little.
Don't agree with a thread make your point and move on, do agree make your point and move on. Think the thread should die, stop posting in it.
Again the OP appears to want to talk about the completely ludicrous way in which Button works (stopping a tank from driving while shooting at the rear armor?!?!), and would like to know if there is some way to deal with it (either by adding a new ability, changing the mechanic, or removing it).
This post is not nerf Soviets because they are too good.
Don't agree with a thread make your point and move on, do agree make your point and move on. Think the thread should die, stop posting in it.
Again the OP appears to want to talk about the completely ludicrous way in which Button works (stopping a tank from driving while shooting at the rear armor?!?!), and would like to know if there is some way to deal with it (either by adding a new ability, changing the mechanic, or removing it).
This post is not nerf Soviets because they are too good.
12 Aug 2014, 14:40 PM
#39
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Button seems fine to me since using it is the only way my first T-34 can take out a Panzer 4. You pretty much have to walk into a trap to get wrecked by button so I don't see a problem. If you get buttoned in your territory chances are your unit will survive. When defending snipers I can see how it would get frustrating but it is not like soviets have a lot of other options. OKW ruined con spam and I think machine guns are stupid so... snipers, guards, and penals are all I have left in this world.Off topic, cons spam with PPsH still work against West.
Plus doing this is muni heavy so if they are buttoning everywhere you don't have to worry about mines and so on.
_____________________________________________________________________________
12 Aug 2014, 15:16 PM
#40
Posts: 752
Why is everyone so angry? Is bringing topics up for discussion so terrible?
This is what happen, everytime, if you post something even remotely "nerf Sov"-like.
Scary, eh?
Completely disproportionate reaction, to an objective concern.
This not the first time, nor will it be the last
Its an old, repetitive and extremely serious problem here.
Mods perhaps wont like me saying it, but they also surely must have recognised this by now.
Iwont speculate on "why" this is so, but since this forum was created, "nerf Sov" threads in partivular get an insane amount of trolling and derailment, way out of comparison to other factions. Its just sort of always been that way, and seemingly shows no sign of abaiting.
So, welcome to the club.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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