C0ffeebeanz - Units that need buffs

Credit to C0ffeebeanz a respected poster on official forums.


1) 222 Armored car
-The MG42 on the A.C. seems to be shooting blanks and can't kill the Soviet sniper in under 15 seconds...As ARMYguy suggested, the MG should have increased accuracy against snipers. Its HP should also be increased from 200 to 280 so it can actually have a chance to kill snipers before being destroyed by mines or Guards. Dual snipers needs to be a much more risky strategy to use, but since nearly every Axis light vehicle is useless, most decent players can pull it off in a 2v2...

2) 251 Flame half-track
-The FHT is non-existent ever since the T3 requirement for the flamethrower upgrade...Flamethrower should be unlocked at T2 again and it could use a 10% buff in damage.

3) Panzergrenadiers
-Cost 340 MP, but can barely beat Riflemen. (Usually by the time they hit the field the Americans will already have vetted & upgraded Riflemen.) They can't seem to close distance anymore without losing one or two squad members. Armor should be increased back to 1.2 and received accuracy should be reduced back to 0.75. Cost should be increased back to 360 MP.

4) Panther
-Some are going to disagree here, but the Panther isn't worth 175 FU. It might have good armor and range, yea, but it also has relatively low DPS. IME, a vetted Puma can easily do anything a Panther could, while costing a lot less.

5) Panzer IV
-Loses to nearly every medium tank except the T-34/76 one vs. one fight...Not to mention that it costs only slightly less than an Easy 8 Sherman, despite having a lot worse performance, AT-wise. Now that its cost was increased to 350 MP and 135 FU, its penetration should also be buffed from 120-100 to 140-120.

6) Brummbar
-Costs a lot more than a KV-8, but doesn't do as much damage to your opponents army...It was a powerful unit when it had only 1 scatter, but now it's overpriced for being a medium tank on steroids. Scatter should be reduced back to 1 and penetration reduced to ~80. FU cost should also be reduced from 160 to 145.

7) Osttruppen
-Not much to say here...They're just worthless now. Extremely low DPS and cost 200 MP. DPS should buffed by at least 15% and cost reduced to 180 MP.

8) Assault Grenadiers
-Do not scale into mid or late game, at all. Unlike Shock Troops, they don't have armor to protect them while closing distance between Conscripts, Penals, Guards and Riflemen. They can easily be beaten by simply keeping your distance...Their armor should be increased to 1.2, received accuracy reduced by 10%, and CP raised from 0 to 1.

9) leFH 18 105mm Howitzer
-Not worth 600 MP at all. Cost should be reduced to 480 MP, or shells fired should be increased by 50%.

10) PaK 43 emplacement
-Same as above. Extremely vulnerable to allied off-maps and infantry. Needs a range buff to at least 85, or cost reduced from 500 to 430 MP.

11) Penal Battalions
-Their only advantage over Conscripts is higher DPS at close & mid range, a flamethrower, and satchel charge...They don't really scale into late game and aren't as versatile as Conscripts. DPS should be increased at long range and cost increased to 320.

12) SU-76
-Probably the most useless unit in this game. Doesn't belong in Tier 4 because with only 320 HP it can easily be sniped by a PaK 40 or rushed by a Puma before it can do anything significant. HP should be increased from 320 to 400 to prevent two-shots and barrage cooldown should also be reduced from 80 to ~65 seconds.

13) Partisans & Irregulars
-These are basically just novelty units now to troll your opponent with...Their received accuracy should be reduced to 25% and DPS slightly buffed.

14) ML-20 152mm Howitzer
-Same as leFH 18...It's just not worth 600 MP. Cost should be reduced to 480 MP, or number of shells fired should be increased by 50%.

15) O.K.W. Flak half-track
-Useless to build against Soviets since it's easily destroyed by AT grenades, ZiS guns, mines, and Guards. Useless to build against Americans since it's easily destroyed by M15A1, Bazookas, and Stuart. Its HP should be increased from 320 to 400, and set-up time reduced back to 2 seconds. Pack up time should also be removed and suppression reduced significantly.

16) le.IG 18 Infantry Support Gun
-Does the same thing as the 81mm Ostheer mortar, yet costs almost twice the MP...Needs an AoE buff, or cost should be reduced to 360 MP.

17) Kubelwagon
-Terrible pathing, armor, and HP. Zero reason to build one against Soviets, and very limited use against Americans. Armor should be increased to 5.4, HP increased from 200 to 240, and range increased by 10. Cost should be increased to 240 MP and 10 FU

18) Fallschirmjagers
-A strong unit, but does the same job as the 340 MP Jaeger Light Infantry...DPS should be increased by 15%, or cost reduced from 440 to 390 MP.

19) Luftwaffe Flak emplacement
-All it does is attack the ground and make cool sounds...

20) O.K.W. Panzer IV 'J'
-Penetration should be increased from 140-120 to 160-140

21) M10 Wolverine
-Don't see much reason to use one over a Jackson...Sure it's spammable, but it's still not good enough to deal with O.K.W. late game. Penetration should be increased from 180-140 to 210-170

22) M8 Greyhound
-Canister shot is nice, but that's about it. Main gun damage should be increased from 40 to 80 and reload time increased by 50%*. Canister shot should be toned down to avoid one-shots.

23) M-21 Mortar half-track
-Doesn't perform anything like the Ostheer 250 MHT...scatter should be reduced so it can actually hit something.

24) Pack howitzer
-Same problem as the le.IG 18...It does the same thing as the Soviet 82mm mortar, but costs 100% more Manpower and costs a lot more pop cap. Its AoE or accuracy should be buffed, or cost reduced to from 480 to 380 MP.

25)Jagdpanzer IV
-Why is it so expensive? It's outclassed by cheaper SU85. Needs to either have a cost reduction (110 fuel?) or buffed.

26)Tiger
-IS2 vs Tiger is broken. Tiger in general needs front armor buff, dying far too easily to ZiS and SU85.

27)Elefant
-Needs a range buff to be brought back from extinction. I don't think a small cost reduction would be bad either.

28)Flak HT
-Apart from having better vet than US HT, this thing needs 3 seconds to do anything, can't kite, is generally less effective and doesn't suppress as well, half of its shots hit the ground or cover and is less durable. Needs something either buffs or cost reduction. Probably the former.

29)US Heavy Armor
-Not really a 'buff' but the US probably does need a Pershing (along with nerfed E8 to compensate)

30)Grenadiers
-They are getting destroyed too easily by oorah ability, they need something. Maybe slight long or med range DPS buff.

31)Stuart
-This seems to be underperforming a bit at the moment I think, maybe some slight armor/damage buff.

32)Stug III G
-This is useless once a Jackson hits the field, it will die to it in 2 or 3 shots. Should see some increased survivability, maybe at the cost of 5-10 fuel.

EDit: Added a few more from the below post

Ostheer is hurting isn't it? I agree with a good portion of these but not all, but a lot of the Ostheer units do need buffs.

25)Jagdpanzer IV
-Why is it so expensive? It's outclassed by cheaper SU85. Needs to either have a cost reduction (110 fuel?) or buffed.

26)Tiger
-IS2 vs Tiger is broken. Tiger in general needs front armor buff, dying far too easily to ZiS and SU85.

27)Elefant
-Needs a range buff to be brought back from extinction. I don't think a small cost reduction would be bad either.

28)Flak HT
-Apart from having better vet than US HT, this thing needs 3 seconds to do anything, can't kite, is generally less effective and doesn't suppress as well, half of its shots hit the ground or cover and is less durable. Needs something either buffs or cost reduction. Probably the former.

29)US Heavy Armor
-Not really a 'buff' but the US probably does need a Pershing (along with nerfed E8 to compensate)

30)Grenadiers
-They are getting destroyed too easily by oorah ability, they need something. Maybe slight long or med range DPS buff.

31)Stuart
-This seems to be underperforming a bit at the moment I think, maybe some slight armor/damage buff.

32)Stug III G
-This is useless once a Jackson hits the field, it will die to it in 2 or 3 shots. Should see some increased survivability, maybe at the cost of 5-10 fuel.

25)Jagdpanzer IV
-Why is it so expensive? It's outclassed by cheaper SU85. Needs to either have a cost reduction (110 fuel?) or buffed.

26)Tiger
-IS2 vs Tiger is broken. Tiger in general needs front armor buff, dying far too easily to ZiS and SU85.

27)Elefant
-Needs a range buff to be brought back from extinction. I don't think a small cost reduction would be bad either.

28)Flak HT
-Apart from having better vet than US HT, this thing needs 3 seconds to do anything, can't kite, is generally less effective and doesn't suppress as well, half of its shots hit the ground or cover and is less durable. Needs something either buffs or cost reduction. Probably the former.

29)US Heavy Armor
-Not really a 'buff' but the US probably does need a Pershing (along with nerfed E8 to compensate)

30)Grenadiers
-They are getting destroyed too easily by oorah ability, they need something. Maybe slight long or med range DPS buff.

31)Stuart
-This seems to be underperforming a bit at the moment I think, maybe some slight armor/damage buff.

32)Stug III G
-This is useless once a Jackson hits the field, it will die to it in 2 or 3 shots. Should see some increased survivability, maybe at the cost of 5-10 fuel.

Nice points

US having a Pershing would rob them of much of their uniqueness. They're balanced around not having a heavy tank and as a bonus this even reflects the focus of US armor strategy.

Maybe have it at 13-14CP and put a limit for just one or two. It is certainly something much more interesting than (vetted) rifle spam.

I largely agree with all of these suggestions. I hope Relic balance team is reading.

1- Theres no "vcoh tables", so theres no way to have an increase accuracy of X unit against Y unit.
While i would like to see is "auras" added to snipers. Snipers blobs would get something like increased accuracy received.
Unless you are considering a price increase, the unit shouldn´t get a buff (210mp/15fuel)

2- I´ve already suggested in swapping BP and Tier buildings price so BP2 can be researched faster.
I think i´m satisfied of FHT rush into cut off.

3- So basically a double buff ? They´ve 0.87 receive acc. modif and you want to add armor?
First: armor won´t be added on units which didn´t have armor. Only unit ingame (i think) it´s shock.
They are not intended to be use as shocks. They are good to clear support weapons, when paired with other units and when you need DPS and you don´t have munition to spam LMG.
PG suffer from the same fate as Penals, they can´t compete with other units with upgrades.

5- Panzer IV is 350mp 125fuel
6- One buff, not both.
7- Same as before
8- Sigh. No armor. I don´t think they need receive acc modifiers (you have sprint if you really want to close in) and they are barely on a fine state. Similar problems as mention on point 3.

9- Heres my POV with static artillery. I don´t want them to be sitting "safely" inside the base. I don´t want them to be so easily sniped by recon + offmap, in the sense that it´s too easy and mindless to do. I´ll rather have a mp reduction to 520mp and a bit less popcap but being unable to build them INSIDE the base.

10- It´s actually better now with the minor popcap. I don´t mind it seeing a 5+ range buff.
11- #3 and i´ve already made a thread about them.

12- I think it needs a more complex aproach. Swapping tiers, working on a similar way as the M8, many different posibilities.

13- Partisans? Irregulars? Are they still ingame ? /s
14- #9
15- Nothing good comes from triple buffs.
16- 70mp reduction? Hmmm...I think the unit is on a relative fine state. At least is way better than the pack howi.
17- Double, triple buffs with fuel price added. I think you should work at Relic /jk.
18- The price you are paying is the royalty of getting them from buildings and their abilities.
19-...
20- You can use heat munition.

21- A faction desing problem. I heard it was going to be part of T4 but Amis AT were too weak, so they swap it with the Jackson.

22- Yep. Buff gun, tone down canister.

23- Make both units similar or equal on stats

24- Dunno but again, no overbuffs plox.

Agree with most of them...plus maxim spam problem.

PTRS, the aim time on that is awful. It's the weakest handheld AT weapon in the game, they stand still aiming for what seems like ages.

US having a Pershing would rob them of much of their uniqueness. They're balanced around not having a heavy tank and as a bonus this even reflects the focus of US armor strategy.

Keeping the faction "unique" by not adding at least one heavy tank is silly. Relic would be foolish to ignore the most demanded unit currently.

Keeping the faction "unique" by not adding at least one heavy tank is silly. Relic would be foolish to ignore the most demanded unit currently.

Yeah, they should release the $3.99 Pershing Commander where every CP you get a Pershing on a pershing with a spamshing and another spamshing with fried eggs sausage and spamshing spamshing on toast, spam spam and toast spam eggs and spam.



On the other hand, it'd be nice to have the Pershing option but they'd need to redisgn the whole faction in order to put it in. Imagine US with early/mid game dominance and then a Pershing at the end with Eggs and Spamshing.

25)Jagdpanzer IV
-Why is it so expensive? It's outclassed by cheaper SU85. Needs to either have a cost reduction (110 fuel?) or buffed.

Maybe because almost all of its stats are better then "outclassing" SU-85?

26)Tiger
-IS2 vs Tiger is broken. Tiger in general needs front armor buff, dying far too easily to ZiS and SU85.

Tanks die to AT guns and tank destroyers. Its not broken, its supposed to be this way.
IS-2 is more durable, Tiger got more firepower.
Its called balance.

27)Elefant
-Needs a range buff to be brought back from extinction. I don't think a small cost reduction would be bad either.

No, it doesn't. PaK43 does, elephant not.

29)US Heavy Armor
-Not really a 'buff' but the US probably does need a Pershing (along with nerfed E8 to compensate)

No, they doesn't. If anything could be better for US, its indirect fire as PAVK howi is bad, scott is good, but AI only and priest is meh.

30)Grenadiers
-They are getting destroyed too easily by oorah ability, they need something. Maybe slight long or med range DPS buff.

No, they aren't. Cons vs grens are balanced until LMG arrives, then its no competition that good grens become.

32)Stug III G
-This is useless once a Jackson hits the field, it will die to it in 2 or 3 shots. Should see some increased survivability, maybe at the cost of 5-10 fuel.

M3 scout car needs buffs, because german 222 beats it effortlessly. This is how your argument sounds like.
Jackson hardcounters stug, because its supposed to. Jackson is long range AT only, stug is general use assault gun that is good against infantry and medium tanks.

Some suggestions are good, others however are not, like buffing fallschirmjagers, assgrens, or the tiger.

Extinct breeds include from Wolverine, Elefant, SearchLight, to Jaeger Light Infantry, LeFH18, SU76...

Great suggestions.

Its a great list

i would say to take these changes to wehr, okw, and cuzz's allied suggestions to make a patch.

added a few more to the list from more suggestions in this thread

They forgot the 120mm mortar which need a price decrease (say 360mp)